Uploaded July 2026 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
U.S. President Donald Trump’s second term has forced a reckoning: Can the trans-Atlantic relationship be salvaged, or has the damage become permanent? Nathalie Tocci argues it cannot be rebuilt as it was. The liberal order that gave trans-Atlanticism its context is gone, and a fundamental breach of trust has occurred. Alexandra de Hoop Scheffer sees it differently: Trans-Atlanticism was never only based on values but also on security, economic, and technological interests. She believes that Europe’s surge in defense spending signals its long-overdue emergence as a geopolitically mature partner.
Tocci and de Hoop Scheffer joined FP’s Ravi Agrawal to debate what the trans-Atlantic relationship actually is, what it’s for, and whether it has a future.
Watch the interview at ForeignPolicy.com: foreignpolicy.com/live/tocci-de-hoop-scheffer-trump-europe-transatlantic-alliance-debate
Read FP’s new print magazine here: foreignpolicy.com/projects/the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it
0:00 Intro
2:10 Trans-Atlanticism is over
5:45 A maturing relationship
8:50 A “value-based” system?
11:55 The pillars of the alliance
15:42 Alliance diversification
18:30 Is Trump to blame?
21:55 Trump’s Greenland threats
24:30 Structural shifts in U.S. policy
28:19 The breach of trust
31:30 Canada’s role
35:05 Europe isn’t using its cards
40:00 The future of liberalism
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FP Live is Foreign Policy's forum for live journalism that brings leading foreign-policy experts and thinkers together to analyze the world's biggest events. Visit foreignpolicy.com/live for the full conversation and more live journalism from Foreign Policy.
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Visit foreignpolicy.com to read the latest global news and analysis from FP.
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U.S. President Donald Trump’s second term has forced a reckoning: Can the trans-Atlantic relationship be salvaged, or has the damage become permanent? Nathalie Tocci argues it cannot be rebuilt as it was. The liberal order that gave trans-Atlanticism its context is gone, and a fundamental breach of trust has occurred. Alexandra de Hoop Scheffer sees it differently: Trans-Atlanticism was never only based on values but also on security, economic, and technological interests. She believes that Europe’s surge in defense spending signals its long-overdue emergence as a geopolitically mature partner.
Tocci and de Hoop Scheffer joined FP’s Ravi Agrawal to debate what the trans-Atlantic relationship actually is, what it’s for, and whether it has a future.
Watch the interview at ForeignPolicy.com: foreignpolicy.com/live/tocci-de-hoop-scheffer-trump-europe-transatlantic-alliance-debate
Read FP’s new print magazine here: foreignpolicy.com/projects/the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it
0:00 Intro
2:10 Trans-Atlanticism is over
5:45 A maturing relationship
8:50 A “value-based” system?
11:55 The pillars of the alliance
15:42 Alliance diversification
18:30 Is Trump to blame?
21:55 Trump’s Greenland threats
24:30 Structural shifts in U.S. policy
28:19 The breach of trust
31:30 Canada’s role
35:05 Europe isn’t using its cards
40:00 The future of liberalism
On the go? Listen to FP Live as a podcast at link.chtbl.com/foreignpolicylivepodcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
FP Live is Foreign Policy's forum for live journalism that brings leading foreign-policy experts and thinkers together to analyze the world's biggest events. Visit foreignpolicy.com/live for the full conversation and more live journalism from Foreign Policy.
Subscribe to Foreign Policy's Youtube Channel: youtube.com/channel/UC1x_EgZtYkAzVavuONBrLZQ?sub_confirmation=1
Visit foreignpolicy.com to read the latest global news and analysis from FP.
Follow Foreign Policy:
X - twitter.com/ForeignPolicy
Instagram - instagram.com/foreignpolicymag
Facebook - facebook.com/foreign.policy.magazine
LinkedIn - linkedin.com/company/foreign-policy-magazine
TikTok - tiktok.com/@foreignpolicymagazine
