Uploaded June 2025 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
Oil and gas companies lie at the heart of the energy transition. To some, they are heroes, continuing to power human progress despite all the odds. To some, they are villains, responsible for the climate change that is devastating our planet.
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich interviews Ben van Beurden, former CEO of Shell from 2014 to 2023. The conversation explores the complexities of the energy transition, climate change, and the role of oil and gas companies in addressing global emissions.
Van Beurden argues that there's no silver bullet solution to climate change, emphasizing the need for multiple approaches and a holistic view of energy transformation. He believes oil and gas companies will play a crucial role in developing clean energy solutions and driving systemic change, but ultimately we must move away from polluting fossil fuels in pursuit of the prize of Clean Energy.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Discover more:
• Episode 204, the Sierra Leone special: youtube.com/watch?v=z-5QjSfy2SM
• Ep111: Daniel Yergin "The World's Most Influential Energy Analyst – youtu.be/8QIh4U3Vgjc
• Ep86: From Climate Law Maker to Superglued Law Breaker – youtube.com/watch?v=iDo7hkcsRFA
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
02:15 - Who is Ben Van Beurden?
04:00 - Is Climate Change Real?
07:20 - Is It Too Late?
10:15 - What’s Realistic?
13:20 - Energy Demand
17:00 - Molecules vs Electrification
19:20 - Solar in West Africa
25:30 - Biofuels & Bioethanol
30:00 - Did Shell Get It Wrong?
35:35 - Cost of Capital & Risk
40:20 - A World With No Oil & Gas
42:30 - Activism Against Shell
44:15 - Lawsuits
47:30 - Does Lawfare Work?
49:50 - Who Is Responsible?
54:00 - Oil & Gas Dominance
57:30 - Why Not More Geothermal
01:01:30 - Do We Need More Oil & Gas?
01:04:20 - Owning The Politics
01:07:18 - Carbon Capture & Storage
01:11:30 - Outro
Oil and gas companies lie at the heart of the energy transition. To some, they are heroes, continuing to power human progress despite all the odds. To some, they are villains, responsible for the climate change that is devastating our planet.
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich interviews Ben van Beurden, former CEO of Shell from 2014 to 2023. The conversation explores the complexities of the energy transition, climate change, and the role of oil and gas companies in addressing global emissions.
Van Beurden argues that there's no silver bullet solution to climate change, emphasizing the need for multiple approaches and a holistic view of energy transformation. He believes oil and gas companies will play a crucial role in developing clean energy solutions and driving systemic change, but ultimately we must move away from polluting fossil fuels in pursuit of the prize of Clean Energy.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Discover more:
• Episode 204, the Sierra Leone special: youtube.com/watch?v=z-5QjSfy2SM
• Ep111: Daniel Yergin "The World's Most Influential Energy Analyst – youtu.be/8QIh4U3Vgjc
• Ep86: From Climate Law Maker to Superglued Law Breaker – youtube.com/watch?v=iDo7hkcsRFA
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
02:15 - Who is Ben Van Beurden?
04:00 - Is Climate Change Real?
07:20 - Is It Too Late?
10:15 - What’s Realistic?
13:20 - Energy Demand
17:00 - Molecules vs Electrification
19:20 - Solar in West Africa
25:30 - Biofuels & Bioethanol
30:00 - Did Shell Get It Wrong?
35:35 - Cost of Capital & Risk
40:20 - A World With No Oil & Gas
42:30 - Activism Against Shell
44:15 - Lawsuits
47:30 - Does Lawfare Work?
49:50 - Who Is Responsible?
54:00 - Oil & Gas Dominance
57:30 - Why Not More Geothermal
01:01:30 - Do We Need More Oil & Gas?
01:04:20 - Owning The Politics
01:07:18 - Carbon Capture & Storage
01:11:30 - Outro
