Uploaded January 2026 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago
Today we're talking pastors! What, exactly, is a pastor? Who gets to be one (only men?)? We're going to dive into the New Testament clergy org-chart, and figure out what the Bible actually says.
Pastor, apostle, bishop, deacon... does the Bible tell us what these positions are? Who is supposed to do what? Who qualifies for which position? Who gets to tell who what to do?
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For early access to an ad-free version of every episode of Data Over Dogma, exclusive content, and the opportunity to support our work, please consider becoming a monthly patron at:
patreon.com/DataOverDogma
Follow us on the various social media places:
facebook.com/DataOverDogmaPod
twitter.com/data_over_dogma
Have you ordered Dan McClellan's New York Times bestselling book The Bible Says So yet???
Buy at this link: static.macmillan.com/static/smp/bible-says-so-9781250347466
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00:00 – Introduction to Data Over Dogma
00:47 – What Is a Pastor? Framing the Question
01:32 – The Word “Pastor” in the New Testament
01:46 – Greek Terminology: Poimēn and Shepherd Language
02:51 – Overseers, Bishops, and Misapplied Qualifications
03:06 – Ephesians 4:11 and the Only NT Use of “Pastor”
03:56 – Are Pastor, Elder, and Overseer the Same Office?
04:22 – Acts 20:28 and the Overseer-as-Shepherd Argument
05:28 – The Problem of Univocality in the New Testament
06:01 – Historical Context: Early, Non-Unified Church Structures
06:47 – Late Development of Church Bureaucracy
07:37 – Pastoring as an Action, Not an Office
08:09 – Jesus as Shepherd: Does That Make Him a Pastor?
09:01 – Peter, Apostles, and Shepherding Language
09:27 – Jewish and Greco-Roman Background of Church Roles
10:38 – Deep Roots of the Shepherd Metaphor
11:04 – Descriptive vs. Prescriptive Roles in Ephesians
12:05 – Hierarchy or Functional Diversity?
12:39 – Possible Loose Hierarchies in Early Christianity
13:47 – Revelation, Psalm 2, and “Shepherd with a Rod of Iron”
14:30 – Translation Issues: Shepherding vs. Ruling
16:15 – Septuagint Influence and Interpretive Consequences
17:42 – Why Shepherd Language ≠ Pastoral Office
18:26 – Power, Gatekeeping, and Defining “Pastor”
19:37 – Why These Texts Predate Formal Church Structures
20:27 – The Limits of Using the NT as an Org Chart
21:45 – Modern Authority Claims and Interpretive Gymnastics
22:17 – Patreon, Support, and Closing
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Today we're talking pastors! What, exactly, is a pastor? Who gets to be one (only men?)? We're going to dive into the New Testament clergy org-chart, and figure out what the Bible actually says.
Pastor, apostle, bishop, deacon... does the Bible tell us what these positions are? Who is supposed to do what? Who qualifies for which position? Who gets to tell who what to do?
----
For early access to an ad-free version of every episode of Data Over Dogma, exclusive content, and the opportunity to support our work, please consider becoming a monthly patron at:
patreon.com/DataOverDogma
Follow us on the various social media places:
facebook.com/DataOverDogmaPod
twitter.com/data_over_dogma
Have you ordered Dan McClellan's New York Times bestselling book The Bible Says So yet???
Buy at this link: static.macmillan.com/static/smp/bible-says-so-9781250347466
_____________________________________________
00:00 – Introduction to Data Over Dogma
00:47 – What Is a Pastor? Framing the Question
01:32 – The Word “Pastor” in the New Testament
01:46 – Greek Terminology: Poimēn and Shepherd Language
02:51 – Overseers, Bishops, and Misapplied Qualifications
03:06 – Ephesians 4:11 and the Only NT Use of “Pastor”
03:56 – Are Pastor, Elder, and Overseer the Same Office?
04:22 – Acts 20:28 and the Overseer-as-Shepherd Argument
05:28 – The Problem of Univocality in the New Testament
06:01 – Historical Context: Early, Non-Unified Church Structures
06:47 – Late Development of Church Bureaucracy
07:37 – Pastoring as an Action, Not an Office
08:09 – Jesus as Shepherd: Does That Make Him a Pastor?
09:01 – Peter, Apostles, and Shepherding Language
09:27 – Jewish and Greco-Roman Background of Church Roles
10:38 – Deep Roots of the Shepherd Metaphor
11:04 – Descriptive vs. Prescriptive Roles in Ephesians
12:05 – Hierarchy or Functional Diversity?
12:39 – Possible Loose Hierarchies in Early Christianity
13:47 – Revelation, Psalm 2, and “Shepherd with a Rod of Iron”
14:30 – Translation Issues: Shepherding vs. Ruling
16:15 – Septuagint Influence and Interpretive Consequences
17:42 – Why Shepherd Language ≠ Pastoral Office
18:26 – Power, Gatekeeping, and Defining “Pastor”
19:37 – Why These Texts Predate Formal Church Structures
20:27 – The Limits of Using the NT as an Org Chart
21:45 – Modern Authority Claims and Interpretive Gymnastics
22:17 – Patreon, Support, and Closing
____________________________________________
#podcast #oldtestament #bible #biblestudy #biblestories #biblereading #bibleteaching #religion #Jesus #jesuschrist #god #adonai #athiest #athiesm #faith #faithjourney #podcasting #podcastclips #podcastlife #podcasters #podcastshow #skeptic #skepticism #judaism #hebrew #hebrewbible #christianbible #christianity #newtestament #christian #christianity #christianityexplained #holybible #doubt #believe #believer #belief #utah #saltlakecity #lds #mormon #scholar #middleeast #israel #pastor #religious #church
