Uploaded June 2025 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
What will it take to finally wean Europe off Russian gas? Can renewables help with grid stability? And is the EU making a mistake subsidising hydrogen?
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with EU Energy and Housing Commissioner Dan Jørgensen to dissect the continent's energy transformation.
In this wide ranging interview recorded at the Berlaymont building in Brussels — the home of the European Commission — Liebreich and Jørgensen delve into critical topics including reducing dependency on Russian energy, the economics of renewable technologies, the role of nuclear power, and the contentious economics of green hydrogen.
Jørgensen defends the EU's ambitious climate goals while addressing concerns about cost, competitiveness, and political pushback against the green transition.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Discover more:
• Sierra Leone special: youtube.com/watch?v=z-5QjSfy2SM
• Decarbonizing the last few percent: mliebreich.substack.com/p/decarbonizing-the-last-few-percent
• Lessons from Spain: mliebreich.substack.com/p/lessons-from-spain
• EU Hydrogen Strategy: https://energy.ec.europa.eu/topics/eus-energy-system/hydrogen_en
Chapters:
00:00 - Coming Up
01:00 - Introduction
01:35 - Russian Gas & Energy Security
03:30 - EU Agreement
05:00 - Russia Back in Europe?
08:00 - Costs & Benefits of Renewables
11:30 - Glut of Gas Supply
14:30 - Competing with China and US
17:00 - Nuclear Power
19:30 - Danish Nuclear?
21:15 - Response to Spanish Blackouts
24:40 - EU Hydrogen Reset
28:30 - Hydrogen Economics
30:30 - Hydrogen Alternatives
32:50 - Winning the Argument
37:00 - Outro
What will it take to finally wean Europe off Russian gas? Can renewables help with grid stability? And is the EU making a mistake subsidising hydrogen?
This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with EU Energy and Housing Commissioner Dan Jørgensen to dissect the continent's energy transformation.
In this wide ranging interview recorded at the Berlaymont building in Brussels — the home of the European Commission — Liebreich and Jørgensen delve into critical topics including reducing dependency on Russian energy, the economics of renewable technologies, the role of nuclear power, and the contentious economics of green hydrogen.
Jørgensen defends the EU's ambitious climate goals while addressing concerns about cost, competitiveness, and political pushback against the green transition.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Discover more:
• Sierra Leone special: youtube.com/watch?v=z-5QjSfy2SM
• Decarbonizing the last few percent: mliebreich.substack.com/p/decarbonizing-the-last-few-percent
• Lessons from Spain: mliebreich.substack.com/p/lessons-from-spain
• EU Hydrogen Strategy: https://energy.ec.europa.eu/topics/eus-energy-system/hydrogen_en
Chapters:
00:00 - Coming Up
01:00 - Introduction
01:35 - Russian Gas & Energy Security
03:30 - EU Agreement
05:00 - Russia Back in Europe?
08:00 - Costs & Benefits of Renewables
11:30 - Glut of Gas Supply
14:30 - Competing with China and US
17:00 - Nuclear Power
19:30 - Danish Nuclear?
21:15 - Response to Spanish Blackouts
24:40 - EU Hydrogen Reset
28:30 - Hydrogen Economics
30:30 - Hydrogen Alternatives
32:50 - Winning the Argument
37:00 - Outro
