Uploaded October 2025 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
This summer, Michael Liebreich wrote two essays under the title of the Pragmatic Climate Reset. The first challenged the idea that the clean energy transition has failed. And the second challenged the clean energy and climate community to a reset, exploring eight areas which he thinks the transition has gone astray.
In this special episode, Bryony Worthington sits down with Michael Liebreich, to unpack Part 2 of “The Pragmatic Climate Reset.”
Michael lays out his vision for cutting through the noise — replacing ideology with realism, and paralysis with progress. From net zero targets and critical minerals to global politics, energy security, and the economics of clean tech, this is a conversation about what it takes to deliver a just and workable climate transition.
Bryony asks Michael:
• Why call out Greta Thunberg instead of anti-climate commentators like Joe Rogan or President Trump?
• Did he go too easy on the fossil fuel industry?
• What did he he got wrong?
• How has the essay been received, and did he get any good feedback, either positive or negative.
Michael puts forward the idea that if the transition is to succeed in the long run and keep the public on board, we must proceed as a tortoise, not a hare, building on the considerable momentum of renewables to phase fossil fuels out of our energy mix while also keeping energy affordable, and everyone’s lights on.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Links and more:
• Read Part I here: about.bnef.com/insights/clean-energy/liebreich-the-pragmatic-climate-reset-part-i
• Read Part 2, here: about.bnef.com/insights/clean-energy/liebreich-the-pragmatic-climate-reset-part-ii-a-provocation
• Watch Part 1 of the Pragmatic Climate Reset: youtube.com/watch?v=OHKGor2\_BzQ
• Explore all of Michael's audioblogs and essays: youtube.com/playlist?list=PLe8ZTD7dMaaAGobfBqd5eRQfeb5l9vPLG
Chapters:
00:00 - Coming Up
02:00 - The Energy Transition Lives
05:07 - Why Greta Thunberg?
08:45 - Will The Transition Be Expensive?
12:00 - Clean Power 2030
13:30 - We Need An Electrification Strategy
18:15 - The Cost of Net Zero
21:30 - Emissions Scenarios
25:30 - Tipping Points
29:16 - What Next for COP?
34:30 - Finance
39:00 - China & Green Bonds
42:00 - Did You Go Too Easy On Fossil Fuels
44:15 - Fossil Fuel Affordability
47:14 - Carbon Tax
49:20 - CFDs
53:00 - Sunset Clauses
56:30 - Writing Better Policy
01:01:35 - What Michael Got Wrong
01:04:15 - Outro
This summer, Michael Liebreich wrote two essays under the title of the Pragmatic Climate Reset. The first challenged the idea that the clean energy transition has failed. And the second challenged the clean energy and climate community to a reset, exploring eight areas which he thinks the transition has gone astray.
In this special episode, Bryony Worthington sits down with Michael Liebreich, to unpack Part 2 of “The Pragmatic Climate Reset.”
Michael lays out his vision for cutting through the noise — replacing ideology with realism, and paralysis with progress. From net zero targets and critical minerals to global politics, energy security, and the economics of clean tech, this is a conversation about what it takes to deliver a just and workable climate transition.
Bryony asks Michael:
• Why call out Greta Thunberg instead of anti-climate commentators like Joe Rogan or President Trump?
• Did he go too easy on the fossil fuel industry?
• What did he he got wrong?
• How has the essay been received, and did he get any good feedback, either positive or negative.
Michael puts forward the idea that if the transition is to succeed in the long run and keep the public on board, we must proceed as a tortoise, not a hare, building on the considerable momentum of renewables to phase fossil fuels out of our energy mix while also keeping energy affordable, and everyone’s lights on.
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.
Links and more:
• Read Part I here: about.bnef.com/insights/clean-energy/liebreich-the-pragmatic-climate-reset-part-i
• Read Part 2, here: about.bnef.com/insights/clean-energy/liebreich-the-pragmatic-climate-reset-part-ii-a-provocation
• Watch Part 1 of the Pragmatic Climate Reset: youtube.com/watch?v=OHKGor2\_BzQ
• Explore all of Michael's audioblogs and essays: youtube.com/playlist?list=PLe8ZTD7dMaaAGobfBqd5eRQfeb5l9vPLG
Chapters:
00:00 - Coming Up
02:00 - The Energy Transition Lives
05:07 - Why Greta Thunberg?
08:45 - Will The Transition Be Expensive?
12:00 - Clean Power 2030
13:30 - We Need An Electrification Strategy
18:15 - The Cost of Net Zero
21:30 - Emissions Scenarios
25:30 - Tipping Points
29:16 - What Next for COP?
34:30 - Finance
39:00 - China & Green Bonds
42:00 - Did You Go Too Easy On Fossil Fuels
44:15 - Fossil Fuel Affordability
47:14 - Carbon Tax
49:20 - CFDs
53:00 - Sunset Clauses
56:30 - Writing Better Policy
01:01:35 - What Michael Got Wrong
01:04:15 - Outro
