Uploaded March 2026 | Updated September 2026, 1 week ago
Rachel Bernstein explains that people crave stability and predictable patterns from early childhood, and when caregivers or systems become unreliable, it creates anxiety, insecurity, and sometimes depression. Rachel shares that cult leaders and manipulators intentionally disrupt predictability to keep others destabilized, making them try harder to please, sacrifice more, show increased devotion, or give more money in hopes of receiving safety or approval. After leaving such relationships or cultic systems, people may struggle to calm their nervous system because they were conditioned to never know when harm, demotion, or changing rules would occur. In contrast, safe relationships and workplaces have consistent rules that allow mastery and security. Rachel urges viewers to notice leaders who keep them “off kilter” and emphasizes that this destabilization is cruel and undeserved.
00:00 Why We Crave Stability
00:42 When Predictability Breaks
01:42 How Manipulators Create Insecurity
02:37 Aftereffects on the Nervous System
03:25 What Safe Systems Look Like
03:48 Spotting Destabilizing Leaders
04:51 You Deserve Better
The IndoctriNation Podcast is a weekly show covering cults, manipulators, & systems of control. Hosted by Rachel Bernstein LMFT, Cult Specialist.
Featured in The New York Times
Join Patreon: patreon.com/indoctrination
Follow on social media: https://linktr.ee/indoctrination
Webinars/Video Lectures: rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html
Why Fear Makes Us Say "Yes" When We Should Have Said "No" (Free PDF): education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/why-fear-makes-us-say-yes
Am I Dating a Narcissist? (Free PDF) : education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/am-i-dating-a-narcissist
Do I Have a Safe Therapist (Free PDF): education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/do-i-have-a-safe-therapist
5 Signs of an Emotionally Manipulative Partner (Free PDF): education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/five-signs-of-emotionally-manipulative-partner
Rachel Bernstein explains that people crave stability and predictable patterns from early childhood, and when caregivers or systems become unreliable, it creates anxiety, insecurity, and sometimes depression. Rachel shares that cult leaders and manipulators intentionally disrupt predictability to keep others destabilized, making them try harder to please, sacrifice more, show increased devotion, or give more money in hopes of receiving safety or approval. After leaving such relationships or cultic systems, people may struggle to calm their nervous system because they were conditioned to never know when harm, demotion, or changing rules would occur. In contrast, safe relationships and workplaces have consistent rules that allow mastery and security. Rachel urges viewers to notice leaders who keep them “off kilter” and emphasizes that this destabilization is cruel and undeserved.
00:00 Why We Crave Stability
00:42 When Predictability Breaks
01:42 How Manipulators Create Insecurity
02:37 Aftereffects on the Nervous System
03:25 What Safe Systems Look Like
03:48 Spotting Destabilizing Leaders
04:51 You Deserve Better
The IndoctriNation Podcast is a weekly show covering cults, manipulators, & systems of control. Hosted by Rachel Bernstein LMFT, Cult Specialist.
Featured in The New York Times
Join Patreon: patreon.com/indoctrination
Follow on social media: https://linktr.ee/indoctrination
Webinars/Video Lectures: rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html
Why Fear Makes Us Say "Yes" When We Should Have Said "No" (Free PDF): education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/why-fear-makes-us-say-yes
Am I Dating a Narcissist? (Free PDF) : education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/am-i-dating-a-narcissist
Do I Have a Safe Therapist (Free PDF): education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/do-i-have-a-safe-therapist
5 Signs of an Emotionally Manipulative Partner (Free PDF): education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/five-signs-of-emotionally-manipulative-partner









![IndoctriNation - Shame-Sex Attraction with Dr. Lucas Wilson
In this episode, Dr. Lucas Wilson shares his personal journey and academic exploration of Holocaust studies and conversion therapy. He discusses his experiences growing up, his struggle with faith and sexuality, and his in-depth research on the intergenerational transmission of trauma. Dr. Wilson also provides a detailed account of his time at Liberty University, his attempts to change his sexual orientation through conversion therapy, and the profound impact these experiences had on his life. This compelling conversation delves into the complex interplay of religion, identity, and trauma, offering valuable perspectives for anyone interested in understanding the long-lasting effects of oppressive religious practices.
Dr. Lucas Wilsons Links
Social Media Handles
- Instagram: @lukeslamdunkwilson
- Threads: @lukeslamdunkwilson
- TikTok: @lukeslamdunkwilson
- Bluesky: @lukeslamdunkwilson.bsky.social
- Twitter/X: @wilson_fw
- LinkedIn: (https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucas-wilson-2a0753b1/)https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucas-wilson-2a0753b1/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucas-wilson-2a0753b1/)
- Facebook: (https://www.facebook.com/luke.wilson.96)https://www.facebook.com/luke.wilson.96 (https://www.facebook.com/luke.wilson.96)
Links to Books
- Shame-Sex Attraction: (https://bookshop.org/p/books/shame-sex-attraction-survivors-stories-of-conversion-therapy-lucas-wilson/5f133f339779ddb5?ean=9781805011323&next=t)https://bookshop.org/p/books/shame-sex-attraction-survivors-stories-of-conversion-therapy-lucas-wilson/5f133f339779ddb5?ean=9781805011323&next=t& (https://bookshop.org/p/books/shame-sex-attraction-survivors-stories-of-conversion-therapy-lucas-wilson/5f133f339779ddb5?ean=9781805011323&next=t) (for those in the U.S.)
- At Home with the Holocaust: (https://www.rutgersuniversitypress.org/at-home-with-the-holocaust/9781978839816/)https://www.rutgersuniversitypress.org/at-home-with-the-holocaust/9781978839816/ (https://www.rutgersuniversitypress.org/at-home-with-the-holocaust/9781978839816/)
Discount Code
The following is the 20% discount code for Shame-Sex Attraction: “WILSON20” (but the discount is only available through Jessica Kingsley Publishers and the University of British Columbia Press websites [the discount code does not apply to the links included above]). For those in the United States, this code can be used on Jessica Kingsley Publishers U.S. website (https://us.jkp.com/ (https://us.jkp.com/)), and for those in Canada, the code can be used on the University of British Columbia Press website (https://www.ubcpress.ca/shame-sex-attraction (https://www.ubcpress.ca/shame-sex-attraction)).
Connect with us on social media:
https://linktr.ee/indoctrination (https://linktr.ee/indoctrination)
Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS)
Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more:
https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination (https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination)
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https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION (https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATIO)
Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation:
https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm (https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm)
Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4)
Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:
https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign (https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign)
Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html (https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html)
IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:
https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about (https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about)
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Episode link: https://play.headliner.app/episode/31371909?utm_source=youtube IndoctriNation - Shame-Sex Attraction with Dr. Lucas Wilson](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_mCTPIuFqRE/mqdefault.jpg)
