Uploaded October 2025 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
Steve Hayes and Damon Linker debate whether Trump’s demolition of the White House East Wing is another norm-busting outrage or just a gaudy renovation. They spar over whether anti-Trump critics have lost perspective — mistaking every “3-out-of-10” scandal for an “11-out-of-10” crisis — and whether the real danger lies not in any single act, but in the public’s exhaustion.
From there, the conversation widens: is Trump’s power rooted in his disregard for public opinion, or in his mastery of it? Has he simply proven that facts and outrage don’t matter if enough people are willing to believe the next lie? Hayes argues Trump’s lies corrode civic life, while Linker warns that selective outrage only feeds cynicism and fatigue. Both agree that Congress’s surrender of its own authority may be the deeper, quieter engine of America’s authoritarian drift.
Then comes “Trump 2028” — half joke, half trial balloon — and what it reveals about a political system still trapped in his gravitational pull. Finally, in Goat Grinders, the trio vent about the “harm-reduction community,” the abuse of the word “literally,” and liberal tolerance of urban decay.
Not Even Mad mixes sharp analysis with a dash of humor — and asks whether we’ve become too numb, too partisan, or just too tired to hold power to account.
#notevenmadpodcast #podcastdebates
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_______________________
CREDITS:
Creator & Host:
Mike Pesca
Producer:
Corey Wara
Steve Hayes and Damon Linker debate whether Trump’s demolition of the White House East Wing is another norm-busting outrage or just a gaudy renovation. They spar over whether anti-Trump critics have lost perspective — mistaking every “3-out-of-10” scandal for an “11-out-of-10” crisis — and whether the real danger lies not in any single act, but in the public’s exhaustion.
From there, the conversation widens: is Trump’s power rooted in his disregard for public opinion, or in his mastery of it? Has he simply proven that facts and outrage don’t matter if enough people are willing to believe the next lie? Hayes argues Trump’s lies corrode civic life, while Linker warns that selective outrage only feeds cynicism and fatigue. Both agree that Congress’s surrender of its own authority may be the deeper, quieter engine of America’s authoritarian drift.
Then comes “Trump 2028” — half joke, half trial balloon — and what it reveals about a political system still trapped in his gravitational pull. Finally, in Goat Grinders, the trio vent about the “harm-reduction community,” the abuse of the word “literally,” and liberal tolerance of urban decay.
Not Even Mad mixes sharp analysis with a dash of humor — and asks whether we’ve become too numb, too partisan, or just too tired to hold power to account.
#notevenmadpodcast #podcastdebates
_______________________
Follow us:
INSTAGRAM:
/ pescagist
TWITTER:
https://x.com/PescaGist
https://x.com/pescami
Visit Mike's website:
mikepesca.com
Join the "Pesca Profundities" membership and get access to the Gist List Newsletter:
mikepesca.substack.com
Get a premium edition of the podcast and help support Mike's work:
subscribe.mikepesca.com
_______________________
CREDITS:
Creator & Host:
Mike Pesca
Producer:
Corey Wara
