Uploaded November 2019 | Updated September 2026, 4 minutes ago
Frans de Waal Primatologist, C.H. Candler Professor in Emory University’s Psychology Department and directo of the Living Links Center at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center.
Has a public page on Facebook.
His latest book is Mama’s Last Hug: Animal Emotions and What they tell us about ourselves
You’re ranked by Time as one of the 100 most influential people in the world. How would like your work and words to influence the world?
What are the most important lessons you want to impart to readers in this book?
Seeing through the eyes of primates?
Primates and decision making. Hero’s journey
You refer to two videos—one of a capuchin monkey in the wild cracking nuts with stones and another, a buffalo herd driving lions away from calf.
You say that the second gets a lot more views because it pulls our heartstrings.
I’m interested in pulling heartstrings. Can you talk about that feeling or sensation. Do you think that non-human animals experience it?
Empathy
Hard pressed to uniquely pinpoint uniquely human emotions.
Human exceptionalism—destroying the planet
Did Gorillas Chimps and Bonobos exist millions of years ago or did they evolve more recently too?
Peace making, reconciliation
Thomas Hobbes and misconceptions
Human Relationships with primates. Love?
You describe how a researched pretended to be a panther and scared some chimps, then took off the mask, and Mama, a chimp which you had a special relationship with, made a laugh face. Do primates have a sense of humor? Do they make jokes?
You talk about the chimp, Kuif, who you taught to bottle feed babies, first a deaf chimp’s and then her own. And from that you talk about awe and gratitude
You talk about how Mama inflicted more injuries than males, concluding that females must use harsher measures to stay on top.
You write that Mama was an expert at mediation.
You write about how Mama helped out Nikkie, a new alpha male to wield his power.
Alpha males—misconceptions.
Trump was very chimplike—didn’t follow rules for Alpha males.
Chimps would shun a chimp that acts like bully like Trump
Alpha females
You discuss animals that mourn.
Let’s talk about Emotional expressions. Darwin not only wrote about Evolution. He also wrote the book Expression of Emotion in Man and Animals.
I love that Darwin used research from Duchenne, who attached galvanic batteries to humans, before there were electrical generators, to study facial expression, and he described the genuine or authentic smile.
Humans have six basic emotions associated with basic expressions.
Are there emotions primates express that humans don’t
You did the famous study with Capuchin monkeys and grapes and cucumbers to demonstrate the sense of fairness in monkeys.
Sense of fairness—what is it based on.
“If nowadays we discovered an animal that didn’t reconcile after fights, we’d be surprised.
Laughing is one of the most animalistic expressions we have.
Social glue, takes sting out of things
Helps with social bonding
Smiling
Duchenne Smile
Smiling on and off the face.
Chimps can smile in ways we can’t.
My EMG studies with smiling found that the smile could be much more powerful if it was spontaneous.
laughter
Earliest laughter in our lives comes in a nurturing context
Thomas Hobbs depicted laughter as a hostile act
Emotions and feelings
Emotions are bodily expressed
Feelings remain private
Misunderstandings about animal emotions,
Misunderstanding about animals.
Darcia Narvaez—primordial nest
In our 2013 interview I asked you about psychopaths in the animal world and you didn’t have much to say. How about now? Any new thoughts about psychopathy or narcissism, which I didn’t ask you about in 2013.
Thoughts about politics?
Frans de Waal Primatologist, C.H. Candler Professor in Emory University’s Psychology Department and directo of the Living Links Center at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center.
Has a public page on Facebook.
His latest book is Mama’s Last Hug: Animal Emotions and What they tell us about ourselves
You’re ranked by Time as one of the 100 most influential people in the world. How would like your work and words to influence the world?
What are the most important lessons you want to impart to readers in this book?
Seeing through the eyes of primates?
Primates and decision making. Hero’s journey
You refer to two videos—one of a capuchin monkey in the wild cracking nuts with stones and another, a buffalo herd driving lions away from calf.
You say that the second gets a lot more views because it pulls our heartstrings.
I’m interested in pulling heartstrings. Can you talk about that feeling or sensation. Do you think that non-human animals experience it?
Empathy
Hard pressed to uniquely pinpoint uniquely human emotions.
Human exceptionalism—destroying the planet
Did Gorillas Chimps and Bonobos exist millions of years ago or did they evolve more recently too?
Peace making, reconciliation
Thomas Hobbes and misconceptions
Human Relationships with primates. Love?
You describe how a researched pretended to be a panther and scared some chimps, then took off the mask, and Mama, a chimp which you had a special relationship with, made a laugh face. Do primates have a sense of humor? Do they make jokes?
You talk about the chimp, Kuif, who you taught to bottle feed babies, first a deaf chimp’s and then her own. And from that you talk about awe and gratitude
You talk about how Mama inflicted more injuries than males, concluding that females must use harsher measures to stay on top.
You write that Mama was an expert at mediation.
You write about how Mama helped out Nikkie, a new alpha male to wield his power.
Alpha males—misconceptions.
Trump was very chimplike—didn’t follow rules for Alpha males.
Chimps would shun a chimp that acts like bully like Trump
Alpha females
You discuss animals that mourn.
Let’s talk about Emotional expressions. Darwin not only wrote about Evolution. He also wrote the book Expression of Emotion in Man and Animals.
I love that Darwin used research from Duchenne, who attached galvanic batteries to humans, before there were electrical generators, to study facial expression, and he described the genuine or authentic smile.
Humans have six basic emotions associated with basic expressions.
Are there emotions primates express that humans don’t
You did the famous study with Capuchin monkeys and grapes and cucumbers to demonstrate the sense of fairness in monkeys.
Sense of fairness—what is it based on.
“If nowadays we discovered an animal that didn’t reconcile after fights, we’d be surprised.
Laughing is one of the most animalistic expressions we have.
Social glue, takes sting out of things
Helps with social bonding
Smiling
Duchenne Smile
Smiling on and off the face.
Chimps can smile in ways we can’t.
My EMG studies with smiling found that the smile could be much more powerful if it was spontaneous.
laughter
Earliest laughter in our lives comes in a nurturing context
Thomas Hobbs depicted laughter as a hostile act
Emotions and feelings
Emotions are bodily expressed
Feelings remain private
Misunderstandings about animal emotions,
Misunderstanding about animals.
Darcia Narvaez—primordial nest
In our 2013 interview I asked you about psychopaths in the animal world and you didn’t have much to say. How about now? Any new thoughts about psychopathy or narcissism, which I didn’t ask you about in 2013.
Thoughts about politics?
