Uploaded July 2026 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago
Courtney Doctor talks with Rory Shiner and Kyle Worley about the difference the doctrine of Union with Christ makes in how we understand our relationship to God and how we live our lives day to day.
Watch the entire episode here: youtu.be/Mrpz-AGJ4XM
For more resources, visit our website.
thegospelcoalition.org/podcasts/deep-dish
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Courtney Doctor talks with Rory Shiner and Kyle Worley about the difference the doctrine of Union with Christ makes in how we understand our relationship to God and how we live our lives day to day.
Watch the entire episode here: youtu.be/Mrpz-AGJ4XM
For more resources, visit our website.
thegospelcoalition.org/podcasts/deep-dish
———
🎁 Help The Gospel Coalition build up a renewed church for tomorrow. Let's Build Together: Donate Today at tgc.org/together
📫 SIGN UP for exclusive content and updates for women: thegospelcoalition.org/tgcwomen/#subscribe
🎧 Don’t miss an episode of “The Deep Dish” with Courtney Doctor and Melissa Kruger!
▫ Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-dish/id1794426491
▫ Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/1DQPjm9wmcZn63RtxrMFGL?si=ryUMMcdeRcWIII3VMX8FVg
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![C. S. Lewis, the New Atheists, & the Failure to Disprove God w/Alister McGrath [Gospelbound Ep. 184]](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/T97WAweJCMY/mqdefault.jpg "C. S. Lewis, the New Atheists, & the Failure to Disprove God w/Alister McGrath [Gospelbound Ep. 184]
Alister McGrath remembers life as an atheist back in the late 1960s. He believed only what could be proven to be true. And he judged religious believers for trusting in an irrational fantasy.
Looking back, though, he can see an emotional basis for what he thought were purely rational conclusions. He didn’t want God to exist, because God would threaten his freedom. As an atheist he could do whatever he wanted. He could be the center of the universe.
Now as a Christian and one of the most well-known apologists in the world, McGrath sees how much desire determines what we believe about the universe. He says, “The human desire for unaccountability leads to the metaphysical conclusion that there should not be a God.”
Last summer McGrath and I caught up when he was the keynote speaker at a Beeson Divinity School conference on Persuasive Preaching. I was invited to engage and respond to his presentation. Alister is a theologian and Christian apologist with a particular interest in the relation of science and faith. In fact he recently retired as a professor of science and religion at Oxford University.
I know him as a godly encourager and kind interlocutor. I’ve learned a lot from him on various subjects, especially C. S. Lewis. In fact, I was listening to him at Lanier Library in Houston when he inspired me to begin work on a book about Lewis and Winston Churchill. So I’m excited to talk with him again about atheism and apologetics and a heavy dose of Lewis.
*In This Episode*
00:00 – Why belief cannot always be proven
00:37 – Collin introduces Alister McGrath, atheism, desire, and C. S. Lewis
02:19 – McGrath’s move from atheism to Christianity in 1971
03:58 – Conversion as a process rather than an instant transformation
05:07 – C. S. Lewis’s “Is Theology Poetry?” and Christianity as a big picture of reality
06:30 – Christianity as aligning with the deep truths of the universe
08:01 – The New Atheists and the power of rhetorical certainty
11:06 – Why the New Atheist movement faded
13:26 – How apologetics has changed over the decades
16:29 – Tim Keller’s apologetic influence
20:25 – Integrating apologetics into preaching
23:22 – Faith versus fact—or faith versus faith?
24:28 – Enlightenment assumptions and the limits of proof
26:33 – Morality, Christianity, and secularized Christian values
28:31 – Truth, meaning, and transformative belief
30:07 – “Bleakness is not an indicator of truth”
31:53 – C. S. Lewis, Winston Churchill, and wartime apologetics
35:03 – Lewis, The Problem of Pain, and the BBC broadcasts
36:52 – Lewis’s faith, academic career, and public apologetics
39:53 – The Weight of Glory and spiritual flourishing in wartime
42:39 – Lewis on marriage, forgiveness, and the Holocaust context
45:29 – The Guardian, archives, and The Screwtape Letters
48:44 – McGrath’s storytelling apologetics and closing reflections
49:38 – Gospelbound outro
*Resources Mentioned*
_Mere Christianity_ by C. S. Lewis - https://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926?tag=thegospcoal-20
_The Problem of Pain_ by C. S. Lewis - https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Pain-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652969?tag=thegospcoal-20
_The Screwtape Letters_ by C. S. Lewis - https://www.amazon.com/Screwtape-Letters-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652934?tag=thegospcoal-20
_The Great Divorce_ by C. S. Lewis - https://www.amazon.com/Great-Divorce-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652950?tag=thegospcoal-20
_The Weight of Glory_ by C. S. Lewis - https://www.amazon.com/Weight-Glory-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060653205?tag=thegospcoal-20
_The Air We Breathe_ by Glen Scrivener - https://www.amazon.com/Air-We-Breathe-Kindness-Christian/dp/1784987492?tag=thegospcoal-20
_Dominion_ by Tom Holland - https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Christian-Revolution-Remade-World/dp/0465093507?tag=thegospcoal-20
_The Dawkins Delusion?_ by Alister McGrath - https://www.amazon.com/Dawkins-Delusion-Atheist-Fundamentalism-Veritas/dp/0830837213?tag=thegospcoal-20
_Making Sense of Us_ by TGC and The Keller Center - https://www.amazon.com/Making-Sense-Us-Exploring-Stories/dp/1956593187?tag=thegospcoal-20
_The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics_ - https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/thekellercenter/
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![The Power of the Pulpit (with H. B. Charles) [The Everyday Pastor - Ep. 52]](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TqeuHRVtdjY/mqdefault.jpg "The Power of the Pulpit (with H. B. Charles) [The Everyday Pastor - Ep. 52]
What keeps a pastor preaching faithfully when ministry feels discouraging?
In this episode, H.B. Charles joins Matt Smethurst and Ligon Duncan to talk about expository preaching, sermon preparation, pastoral application, grief, perseverance, and why the power for ministry is still found in the Word of God.
From becoming a pastor at 17 years old to preaching through seasons of pain and pressure, H.B. offers wisdom and encouragement for pastors who want to faithfully “preach the Word” for the long haul.
🔗 MENTIONED
▫ On Preaching by H. B. Charles Jr. - https://www.amazon.com/Preaching-Personal-Pastoral-Insights-Preparation/dp/0802411916?tag=thegospcoal-20
▫ On Pastoring by H. B. Charles Jr. - https://www.amazon.com/Pastoring-Living-Leading-Ministering-Pastor/dp/0802414605?tag=thegospcoal-20
▫ On Worship by H. B. Charles Jr. - https://www.amazon.com/Worship-Understanding-Participating-Leading-Corporate/dp/B0BDMVQDXK?tag=thegospcoal-20
▫ Precious Remedies Against Satans Devices by Thomas Brooks - https://www.amazon.com/Precious-Remedies-Against-Satans-Devices/dp/B0DJ2C2TDV/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?tag=thegospcoal-20
▫ Toward an Exegetical Theology by Walter Kaiser Jr. - https://www.amazon.com/Toward-Exegetical-Theology-Biblical-Preaching/dp/0801021979?tag=thegospcoal-20
▫ Mark Devers Application Grid - https://anglicanexpositor.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/application-grid.pdf
▫ Come and See by Jonathan Pennington - https://www.amazon.com/Come-See-Journey-Knowing-Scripture/dp/1433571285?tag=thegospcoal-20
If youre ready to go deeper, Southern Seminarys PhD program is where that begins. Visit https://bit.ly/SBTS-TEP to learn more.
0:00 — Why expository preaching needs application
1:04 — Introducing H.B. Charles
2:03 — Becoming a pastor at 17 years old
3:40 — Acts 6:4 and pastoral ministry
3:59 — Learning expository preaching
5:24 — How H.B. trained himself to preach
7:13 — “I gave my life to preaching”
8:34 — Why studying matters for preaching
9:07 — Prayer and sermon preparation
11:10 — Structuring mornings for study and prayer
12:09 — Common misconceptions about expository preaching
14:57 — Common mistakes young preachers make
16:13 — Why sermon application matters
17:14 — Practical tools for better application
18:25 — Loving the people you preach to
20:33 — Knowing your congregation’s struggles
24:17 — Preaching to your actual church
25:21 — How grief shaped H.B.’s preaching
27:59 — The bad advice pastors sometimes receive
29:23 — “Preach to broken hearts”
31:20 — The power of the pulpit during hard seasons
33:29 — Why pastors shouldn’t vent from the pulpit
35:05 — Encouragement for discouraged pastors
36:44 — “The Word works”
38:39 — Waiting on God’s timing
40:13 — Final encouragement to pastors
40:47 — H.B. Charles prays for pastors
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