Sentientism | "Ethical value flows from reality" - Pablo Perez Castello - Sentientist Conversations EP:81 @Sentientism | Uploaded October 2021 | Updated October 2024, 1 hour ago.
Pablo (twitter.com/PabloPCastello & linkedin.com/in/pablo-perez-castello-8aa65a18b/) is a Research Asst at the Cambridge Centre for Animal Rights Law & a Junior Fellow of the Animals & Biodiversity prog of the Global Research Network (GRN) think tank. He is a PhD candidate at Royal Holloway (UoL). His research in Philosophy focuses on understanding the importance of human language in producing human dominion over animals. He also investigates the role animal language can play in relation to the participation of animals in political decision-making processes & the construction of zoodemocratic systems. His interests include ecofeminism, postcolonialism, critical race theory, critical disability studies, animal law, conservation, continental philosophy & critical animal studies.
In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”
Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The audio is on our Podcast: apple.co/391khQO.
We discuss:
0:00 Welcome
1:30 Pablo's Intro - interdisciplinary, intersectional research re: human & non-human animals, their languages & potential zoodemocracy.
3:51 What's Real?
- Born into an atheist family
- Wittgenstein's "Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus" & the mystical sense of Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky
- "Becoming sensitive to a dimension of reality that I thought had been hidden to me" via Wittgenstein's early work
- Are poetry, music, arts & feeling beyond science even while they are aspects of reality (not the mystical)?
- Being grounded in our embodied existence (ecofeminism)
- "Ethical value flows from reality"... "Sentience matters because it is real... there are beings that actually suffer"
- Interests, preferences & relationships are grounded in who those beings are
- Derrida's "The Animal That Therefore I Am." What is it like for a cat to see me naked?!
- Alterity. Appreciating the "other" in their own terms. Levinas
- Science & naturalism & personal experience
- Feminist thought & context
- Language, categories, relations, community & power
- "Western" binaries. Those w/without reason. Barbarians & the civilised.
- Are relations & communities & cultures reducible to patterns of info proc in the minds of sentients?
- Is the bond between cow & calf intrinsically valuable, or are the relationships reducible to the individual cow & calf?
- Science & scientism
- Claire Jean Kim's "Dangerous Crossings". Understanding different actors' positionality - including our own. Ethic of mutual avowal
- Lori Gruen & "Entangled Empathy"
- The ancient, global, various roots of sentiocentrism & naturalism
- Consilience vs. silos of knowledge
32:14 What (& Who) Matters?
- Heidegger's interpretation of aletheia (truth) as disclosure
- Sentience matters, but not all that matters
- Pluralism. Multiple dimensions of value e.g. relations?
- Valuing voices/individuals "in their own terms"
- The irreducibility of individual experiences (vs. utilitarian aggregation / offsetting)
- Treatment of those who don't fit the "ideal paradigm"
- "I don't like approaches!" Why limit ourselves?
- Singer & utilitarianism. The pleasure of the bull-fighting audience doesn't justify the suffering of the bull
- Ecofeminism, Marti Kheel, Carol J. Adams, Lori Gruen... "The problem with interest theory is that it reduces beings to an atomistic bundle of interests" (in Slicer's "Your Daughter or Your Dog?")
- Drawing the moral consideration line
- Deborah Slicer & moral remainders... beyond our comfort in our decisions (e.g. vegan isn't perfect)
- No one should think "I have got it right!"
- "Thinking Through Animals" by Matthew Calarco
- Donna Haraway "Our existence is intrinsically violent... there is no way to live without killing". Now try to reduce that violence. Stay with the "trouble"
- Consideration for plants?
- Anthropocentrism
- The risks of cultural value justifying oppression of non-human animals
- Cultures themselves should be criticised & evaluated
- Recognising those within cultures that criticise those cultures
- A zoodemocracy of human & non-human animals means we need to respect the voices of every zoocitizen
- Not seeing cultures/groups as monolithic ("erasing" individual experiences)
- Donaldson & Kymlicka
- There is no intrinsic value in relations between inanimate entities
1:09:25 The Future
- A Universal Declaration of Sentient Rights, Sentientist Development Goals, Sentientist Language?
- Zoopolis/Sentientist Politics
- Representing those who can't represent themselves
- Wild animals
- Dinesh Wadiwel "The War Against Animals". Why do humans have the right to decide over others' lives? What's the justification - playing god?
Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at sentientism.info/. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall sentientism.info/wall/.
Everyone is welcome in our groups e.g.: facebook.com/groups/sentientism.
Pablo (twitter.com/PabloPCastello & linkedin.com/in/pablo-perez-castello-8aa65a18b/) is a Research Asst at the Cambridge Centre for Animal Rights Law & a Junior Fellow of the Animals & Biodiversity prog of the Global Research Network (GRN) think tank. He is a PhD candidate at Royal Holloway (UoL). His research in Philosophy focuses on understanding the importance of human language in producing human dominion over animals. He also investigates the role animal language can play in relation to the participation of animals in political decision-making processes & the construction of zoodemocratic systems. His interests include ecofeminism, postcolonialism, critical race theory, critical disability studies, animal law, conservation, continental philosophy & critical animal studies.
In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”
Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The audio is on our Podcast: apple.co/391khQO.
We discuss:
0:00 Welcome
1:30 Pablo's Intro - interdisciplinary, intersectional research re: human & non-human animals, their languages & potential zoodemocracy.
3:51 What's Real?
- Born into an atheist family
- Wittgenstein's "Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus" & the mystical sense of Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky
- "Becoming sensitive to a dimension of reality that I thought had been hidden to me" via Wittgenstein's early work
- Are poetry, music, arts & feeling beyond science even while they are aspects of reality (not the mystical)?
- Being grounded in our embodied existence (ecofeminism)
- "Ethical value flows from reality"... "Sentience matters because it is real... there are beings that actually suffer"
- Interests, preferences & relationships are grounded in who those beings are
- Derrida's "The Animal That Therefore I Am." What is it like for a cat to see me naked?!
- Alterity. Appreciating the "other" in their own terms. Levinas
- Science & naturalism & personal experience
- Feminist thought & context
- Language, categories, relations, community & power
- "Western" binaries. Those w/without reason. Barbarians & the civilised.
- Are relations & communities & cultures reducible to patterns of info proc in the minds of sentients?
- Is the bond between cow & calf intrinsically valuable, or are the relationships reducible to the individual cow & calf?
- Science & scientism
- Claire Jean Kim's "Dangerous Crossings". Understanding different actors' positionality - including our own. Ethic of mutual avowal
- Lori Gruen & "Entangled Empathy"
- The ancient, global, various roots of sentiocentrism & naturalism
- Consilience vs. silos of knowledge
32:14 What (& Who) Matters?
- Heidegger's interpretation of aletheia (truth) as disclosure
- Sentience matters, but not all that matters
- Pluralism. Multiple dimensions of value e.g. relations?
- Valuing voices/individuals "in their own terms"
- The irreducibility of individual experiences (vs. utilitarian aggregation / offsetting)
- Treatment of those who don't fit the "ideal paradigm"
- "I don't like approaches!" Why limit ourselves?
- Singer & utilitarianism. The pleasure of the bull-fighting audience doesn't justify the suffering of the bull
- Ecofeminism, Marti Kheel, Carol J. Adams, Lori Gruen... "The problem with interest theory is that it reduces beings to an atomistic bundle of interests" (in Slicer's "Your Daughter or Your Dog?")
- Drawing the moral consideration line
- Deborah Slicer & moral remainders... beyond our comfort in our decisions (e.g. vegan isn't perfect)
- No one should think "I have got it right!"
- "Thinking Through Animals" by Matthew Calarco
- Donna Haraway "Our existence is intrinsically violent... there is no way to live without killing". Now try to reduce that violence. Stay with the "trouble"
- Consideration for plants?
- Anthropocentrism
- The risks of cultural value justifying oppression of non-human animals
- Cultures themselves should be criticised & evaluated
- Recognising those within cultures that criticise those cultures
- A zoodemocracy of human & non-human animals means we need to respect the voices of every zoocitizen
- Not seeing cultures/groups as monolithic ("erasing" individual experiences)
- Donaldson & Kymlicka
- There is no intrinsic value in relations between inanimate entities
1:09:25 The Future
- A Universal Declaration of Sentient Rights, Sentientist Development Goals, Sentientist Language?
- Zoopolis/Sentientist Politics
- Representing those who can't represent themselves
- Wild animals
- Dinesh Wadiwel "The War Against Animals". Why do humans have the right to decide over others' lives? What's the justification - playing god?
Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at sentientism.info/. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall sentientism.info/wall/.
Everyone is welcome in our groups e.g.: facebook.com/groups/sentientism.
![We need to transition [India]... the question is how? - Economist Chaitanya Talreja - Ep:127](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ja2GV6rwZbY/hqdefault.jpg "We need to transition [India]... the question is how? - Economist Chaitanya Talreja - Ep:127
Chaitanya (https://sentientism.info/sentientist-pledge/chaitanya-talreja) is Assist Professor at TISS in Mumbai. He has a PhD in Economics. Chaitanya’s interests include econ. devt. strategies in the #globalsouth , structural change, econ. devt. & regulatory policy, urban econ, & non-anthropocentric alternatives to value systems in progress & conservation including food systems research (& maybe #SentientistEconomics ?)
In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”
Sentientism is evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings. The audio is on our Podcast: https://apple.co/391khQO & https://anchor.fm/sentientism.
We discuss:
00:00 Welcome
01:42 Chaitanyas Intro
- Economics as a way to improve the world
03:45 Whats Real?
- Growing up in a #sindhi family in India
- #pakistan , #india & partition
- Having a #hindu temple at home
- An #atheist father he didnt believe in all those things who turned to religion after a difficult time
- I dont believe in god
- Religion has always been a tool to marginalise different sections of the society
- Rejecting faith
- Degree, masters, PhD... questioning things... critical thinking
- Before then, unthinkingly accepting what had been told
- The way you think has real impact on society
- There are several ways of living life and one has agency
- Evidence & reason, ethical & systemic critiques of religion
- Its a very hard task to grasp reality
- I would rather... analyse things around me as they are
- #pluralism
- Naturalistic views of relatedness & interconnectedness
- Finding a balance between defeatist humility & arrogant hubris
22:54 What Matters?
- Being sensitive, as a child, to humans & non-humans
- Growing up in a patriarchal society
- Not cheating, working hard... stopping at red lights
26:49 Who Matters?
- Sindhis typically eat meat, but father said I always felt it was not the right thing to do
- Buying meat from a public slaughterhouse I did not feel comfortable but I used to love it [eating meat]
- Family gatherings centred around #meat everyone around me was relishing... & my father was telling me this is not the right thing to do
- Fighting about eating meat at 4-5 years old
- Visiting the #slaughterhouse this is where it comes from
- #sentience & the dangers of human-defined moral scope
- Collective agreements about moral communities It shouldnt just be about my morals
- #animalrescue dilemmas re: animals consuming animals
- Easy & hard ethical choices
- Ethical & epistemological humility
- We shouldnt be using these moral trade-offs to avoid having a moral scope
- The boundaries of sentience... oysters, #bivalves & #invertebrates
43:40 A Better Future?
- #Hindu nationalism, #castediscrimination #secularism
- #utopia vs. pragmatism
- A world that is more kind & compassionate
- Animal Law studies in Hyderabad There are developments happening
- Animal ethics are not in the mainstream
- #hindutva & the #bjp
- Hinduism, the sacredness of cows & the use of cow products (milk, dung, urine)
- Purity & #caste systems
- India is the largest buffalo beef exporter
- Its a political device to marginalise sections of Indian society... #dalit #muslim #adivasi
- Even vegetarian Hindus consume many animal products
- Hinduism... doesnt actually talk about animal rights
- ...the dominant politics is harming the marginalised humans & also the non-humans
- #socialjustice We can talk about humans & non-humans
- The Tamil movie #jaibhim, eating rats & the oppression of #indigenous groups
- Oppressed people are capable of thinking about non-humans too
- #intersectionality & the #vegan movement
- #speciesism
- #vegan in Indian context, individual change & systemic change
- Seeing caged hens slaughtered every day
- A woman selling fish from the sea. Can I have a conversation with them about non-humans?
- #transition economics, politics, sociology... we should have tools from all these fields
- The fact that we need to transition is not in question... the question is how
- Create more livelihoods without causing harm
- Handling resistance to change
- Asking the right questions about transition (vs. #veganism )
- Thousands of transition paths?
- #SentientistEconomics ?
- There have to be incentives
- Choosing to be optimistic :)
- Even in places of high learning people are oblivious to this idea
- Growth, Eco economics, neo-liberalism
- Kindness & compassion our aim is not just to consume & produce
- Maybe #sentientism can help us further this idea of changing the way we study economics
... & much more! Full show notes at sentientism.info
#Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all #sentient beings.” More at https://sentientism.info/. Join our Im a Sentientist wall https://sentientism.info/wall/.
Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. E.g.: https://www.facebook.com/groups/sentientism.")
