Uploaded June 2024 | Updated September 2026, 4 days ago
In this episode, Sasha and Stella welcome lawyer, Josh Payne, co-founder of Campbell Miller Payne, a law firm dedicated to representing individuals who were misled and abused – many as children – into psychological and physical harm through a false promise of “gender-affirming care.” Campbell Miller Payne is committed to its mission to speak up for these victims, assert their rights, and pursue justice.
This is a conversation about various legal challenges faced by detransitioners, such as issues with informed consent, systemic healthcare problems, and the experimental nature of many treatments. The discussion emphasizes the vulnerability of clients, the lack of comprehensive care addressing underlying mental health issues, and the need for cautious medical practices, underscoring the importance of seeking justice for those affected and advocating for more responsible treatment alternatives to gender-affirming care.
For links and resources relevant to this episode, access the full show notes at widerlenspod.com/p/episode-167
Visit cmppllc.com to learn more about Josh Payne and the Campbell Miller Payne firm.
Buy Our Book – When Kids Say They’re Trans: A Guide for Thoughtful Parents at whenkidssaytheyretrans.com
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Support the Show at widerlenspod.com/p/support-the-show
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For more information about Sasha’s & Stella’s parent coaching membership groups, visit:
Sasha Ayad: sashaayad.com/parenting-coaching
Stella O’Malley: stellaomalley.com/parent-coaching
To learn more about our sponsors, visit:
Therapy First at therapyfirst.org
Genspect at genspect.org
If you liked this episode, more episodes you might find interesting include:
Episode 94 — WPATH’s Bizarre 8th Standards of Care
youtu.be/aMrCTlp2-Io
Episode 99 — Detransitioned & Damaged by the Dutch Protocol: Teiresias
youtu.be/Xjl6-GcGzwU
Episode 112 — Jamie Reed: “Every Ethical Line I Drew Was Walked On… We Are Hurting People”
youtu.be/QafpwKrz-lw
Episode 118 - Prioritizing Expensive & Invasive Interventions: American Healthcare w/ Zhenya Abbruzzese
youtu.be/YhLA02Dtupc?feature=shared
Episode 131 - Facing Futility: You Can’t Actually Change Sex, with Corinna Cohn
youtu.be/-nSUAqdT0fw?si=cSC0slo2-4m_PI1C
Episode 151 - "These Doctors Have Forgotten the Meaning of Medicine" with Dr. Eithan Haim
youtu.be/DgbWy2ntwqY?feature=shared
Episode 160 - A Look at the Overlap Between Autism and Gender Dysphoria, with Christina Buttons
youtube.com/watch?v=jh4bvghOn2o
Episode 161 - The Unlikely Whistleblower with Tamara Pietzke
youtube.com/watch?v=afuodzjH8y4
In this episode, Sasha and Stella welcome lawyer, Josh Payne, co-founder of Campbell Miller Payne, a law firm dedicated to representing individuals who were misled and abused – many as children – into psychological and physical harm through a false promise of “gender-affirming care.” Campbell Miller Payne is committed to its mission to speak up for these victims, assert their rights, and pursue justice.
This is a conversation about various legal challenges faced by detransitioners, such as issues with informed consent, systemic healthcare problems, and the experimental nature of many treatments. The discussion emphasizes the vulnerability of clients, the lack of comprehensive care addressing underlying mental health issues, and the need for cautious medical practices, underscoring the importance of seeking justice for those affected and advocating for more responsible treatment alternatives to gender-affirming care.
For links and resources relevant to this episode, access the full show notes at widerlenspod.com/p/episode-167
Visit cmppllc.com to learn more about Josh Payne and the Campbell Miller Payne firm.
Buy Our Book – When Kids Say They’re Trans: A Guide for Thoughtful Parents at whenkidssaytheyretrans.com
Join Our Listener Community to Access Exclusive Content at widerlenspod.com/
Support the Show at widerlenspod.com/p/support-the-show
Join this channel to get access to additional bonus content:
youtube.com/channel/UCP62aWWtlZV1oVnbMhTRBcg/join
For more information about Sasha’s & Stella’s parent coaching membership groups, visit:
Sasha Ayad: sashaayad.com/parenting-coaching
Stella O’Malley: stellaomalley.com/parent-coaching
To learn more about our sponsors, visit:
Therapy First at therapyfirst.org
Genspect at genspect.org
If you liked this episode, more episodes you might find interesting include:
Episode 94 — WPATH’s Bizarre 8th Standards of Care
youtu.be/aMrCTlp2-Io
Episode 99 — Detransitioned & Damaged by the Dutch Protocol: Teiresias
youtu.be/Xjl6-GcGzwU
Episode 112 — Jamie Reed: “Every Ethical Line I Drew Was Walked On… We Are Hurting People”
youtu.be/QafpwKrz-lw
Episode 118 - Prioritizing Expensive & Invasive Interventions: American Healthcare w/ Zhenya Abbruzzese
youtu.be/YhLA02Dtupc?feature=shared
Episode 131 - Facing Futility: You Can’t Actually Change Sex, with Corinna Cohn
youtu.be/-nSUAqdT0fw?si=cSC0slo2-4m_PI1C
Episode 151 - "These Doctors Have Forgotten the Meaning of Medicine" with Dr. Eithan Haim
youtu.be/DgbWy2ntwqY?feature=shared
Episode 160 - A Look at the Overlap Between Autism and Gender Dysphoria, with Christina Buttons
youtube.com/watch?v=jh4bvghOn2o
Episode 161 - The Unlikely Whistleblower with Tamara Pietzke
youtube.com/watch?v=afuodzjH8y4
