Uploaded May 2024 | Updated September 2026, 1 week ago
Mahon McCann is a writer, award-winning playwright, philosophy doctoral researcher, martial arts coach, and podcast host who explores personal development and ethical issues of technology.
Are we on the brink of a new era of enlightenment or facing the rise of an existential threat? In this episode, John Vervaeke and Mahon McCann delve into the intricate relationship between artificial intelligence and the human search for meaning. They explore the potential of AI to act as a tool for personal and collective transformation, but also examine the challenges of creating AI that truly understands and respects our values. From predictive processing and relevance realization to Plato's cave allegory, this episode offers a fascinating exploration of the intersection between AI and human consciousness.
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community! patreon.com/johnvervaeke
—
"Attention is like a spotlight you shine on things. When you shine your attention on them, they stand out and keep your attention." - John Vervaeke [00:02:12]
“So much of this first generation of AI is an environment, the large scale curation algorithms of social media are what's organizing our experience online. It's not a human being, but it's playing this role of orchestrating a lot of our experience and people's development. And so creating an optimal AI or an optimal environment would be trying to foster optimal agency, optimal meaning, which is really optimal wellbeing as well.” -Mahon McCann [00:38:23]
“I think part of steeling the culture is to get the people within the AI industry [to] drop the sorcerer myth. Drop it. Disidentify with it. Take up the sage mythology. Take that up. That is the way we can do what you want, but in a way that isn't going to set us on a path to destruction. -John Vervaeke [00:59:16]
—
0:00 Introduction to AI Alignment and the Meaning Crisis
1:00 Predictive Processing and Relevance Realization
2:00 Beyond the Spotlight Metaphor: New Models of Attention
6:30 Integrating Predictive Processing with Relevance Realization
23:00 Agency, Meaning, and the Self-Organizing Mind
29:20 Autopoiesis, Agency, and Plato's Insights
31:25 Predictive Processing, Motivation, Vertical Alignment, and Horizontal Anticipation
35:05 Optimal Agency, Collective Intelligence, and Persuasive Technologies
37:40 AI as Agents vs. AI as Environment
39:45 The Challenge of Aligning AI with Human Flourishing
53:15 Creating a New Sacredness in the Digital Age
59:44 Concluding Thoughts on Navigating AI Development: Embracing Choice Points, Wisdom, and Foresight for a Collectively Beneficial Future
—
Join the Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world. vervaekefoundation.org
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today. awakentomeaning.com
—
Ideas, Authors, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Predictive processing and relevance realization: exploring convergent solutions to the frame problem - Brett Andersen, Mark Miller, John Vervaeke
Ken Lowry
D.C. Schindler
Jonathan Pageau
Mark Miller
Rick Repetti
Attention Is Cognitive Unison: An Essay in Philosophical Psychology - Christopher Mole
Feature-integration theory of attention - Anne Treisman
Metaphors We Live By - George Lakoff and Mark Johnson
Attention Metaphors: How Metaphors Guide the Cognitive Psychology of Attention - Diego Fernandez-Duque, Mark Johnson
William James
Andy Clark
Phenomenology of Perception - Maurice Merleau-Ponty
Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience - Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi
Lev Vygotsky
The Republic - Plato
Theory of motivation
Mentoring the Machines - John Vervaeke and Shawn Coyne
Free-Energy Minimising Agents and Beneficial A.I.: Ambient Smart Environments, Allostasis, and Metacognitive Control - Ben White and Mark Miller
Tristan Harris
Heidegger
—
The Crossroads of Predictive Processing and Relevance Realization | Leiden Symposium - youtube.com/watch?v=51wcY39ouGs
AI: The Coming Thresholds and The Path We Must Take | Internationally Acclaimed Cognitive Scientist - youtube.com/watch?v=A-_RdKiDbz4&list=PLND1JCRq8Vui2YOOfrxbeRwJk5jZPmAth&index=1
—
Follow John Vervaeke
johnvervaeke.com
twitter.com/vervaeke_john
youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
patreon.com/johnvervaeke
Follow Mahon McCann
instagram.com/mahon_mccann
mahonmccann.com
youtube.com/@MahonMcCann
—
Thank you for watching!
Mahon McCann is a writer, award-winning playwright, philosophy doctoral researcher, martial arts coach, and podcast host who explores personal development and ethical issues of technology.
Are we on the brink of a new era of enlightenment or facing the rise of an existential threat? In this episode, John Vervaeke and Mahon McCann delve into the intricate relationship between artificial intelligence and the human search for meaning. They explore the potential of AI to act as a tool for personal and collective transformation, but also examine the challenges of creating AI that truly understands and respects our values. From predictive processing and relevance realization to Plato's cave allegory, this episode offers a fascinating exploration of the intersection between AI and human consciousness.
Support John's groundbreaking work and gain exclusive access to live Q&A sessions, early video releases, and more by joining our Patreon community! patreon.com/johnvervaeke
—
"Attention is like a spotlight you shine on things. When you shine your attention on them, they stand out and keep your attention." - John Vervaeke [00:02:12]
“So much of this first generation of AI is an environment, the large scale curation algorithms of social media are what's organizing our experience online. It's not a human being, but it's playing this role of orchestrating a lot of our experience and people's development. And so creating an optimal AI or an optimal environment would be trying to foster optimal agency, optimal meaning, which is really optimal wellbeing as well.” -Mahon McCann [00:38:23]
“I think part of steeling the culture is to get the people within the AI industry [to] drop the sorcerer myth. Drop it. Disidentify with it. Take up the sage mythology. Take that up. That is the way we can do what you want, but in a way that isn't going to set us on a path to destruction. -John Vervaeke [00:59:16]
—
0:00 Introduction to AI Alignment and the Meaning Crisis
1:00 Predictive Processing and Relevance Realization
2:00 Beyond the Spotlight Metaphor: New Models of Attention
6:30 Integrating Predictive Processing with Relevance Realization
23:00 Agency, Meaning, and the Self-Organizing Mind
29:20 Autopoiesis, Agency, and Plato's Insights
31:25 Predictive Processing, Motivation, Vertical Alignment, and Horizontal Anticipation
35:05 Optimal Agency, Collective Intelligence, and Persuasive Technologies
37:40 AI as Agents vs. AI as Environment
39:45 The Challenge of Aligning AI with Human Flourishing
53:15 Creating a New Sacredness in the Digital Age
59:44 Concluding Thoughts on Navigating AI Development: Embracing Choice Points, Wisdom, and Foresight for a Collectively Beneficial Future
—
Join the Vervaeke Foundation in our mission to advance the scientifically rigorous pursuit of wisdom and make a meaningful impact in the world. vervaekefoundation.org
Discover practices that deepen your virtues and help you connect more deeply with reality and relationships by joining Awaken to Meaning today. awakentomeaning.com
—
Ideas, Authors, and Works Mentioned in this Episode
Predictive processing and relevance realization: exploring convergent solutions to the frame problem - Brett Andersen, Mark Miller, John Vervaeke
Ken Lowry
D.C. Schindler
Jonathan Pageau
Mark Miller
Rick Repetti
Attention Is Cognitive Unison: An Essay in Philosophical Psychology - Christopher Mole
Feature-integration theory of attention - Anne Treisman
Metaphors We Live By - George Lakoff and Mark Johnson
Attention Metaphors: How Metaphors Guide the Cognitive Psychology of Attention - Diego Fernandez-Duque, Mark Johnson
William James
Andy Clark
Phenomenology of Perception - Maurice Merleau-Ponty
Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience - Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi
Lev Vygotsky
The Republic - Plato
Theory of motivation
Mentoring the Machines - John Vervaeke and Shawn Coyne
Free-Energy Minimising Agents and Beneficial A.I.: Ambient Smart Environments, Allostasis, and Metacognitive Control - Ben White and Mark Miller
Tristan Harris
Heidegger
—
The Crossroads of Predictive Processing and Relevance Realization | Leiden Symposium - youtube.com/watch?v=51wcY39ouGs
AI: The Coming Thresholds and The Path We Must Take | Internationally Acclaimed Cognitive Scientist - youtube.com/watch?v=A-_RdKiDbz4&list=PLND1JCRq8Vui2YOOfrxbeRwJk5jZPmAth&index=1
—
Follow John Vervaeke
johnvervaeke.com
twitter.com/vervaeke_john
youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
patreon.com/johnvervaeke
Follow Mahon McCann
instagram.com/mahon_mccann
mahonmccann.com
youtube.com/@MahonMcCann
—
Thank you for watching!
