Uploaded September 2025 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
Christopher F. Rufo, a conservative activist, is on what he might call a winning streak. Long before it was fashionable to do so, Rufo, a senior fellow at the right-leaning Manhattan Institute, was leading the charge against diversity, equity, and inclusion programs on college campuses. Now, many universities — by law or by choice — are ditching DEI programs as fast as they can. Beyond that, Rufo has waged numerous online pressure campaigns against college leaders, leading to the resignations or scuttled appointments of those who’ve extolled the virtues of DEI. His airing of plagiarism allegations against Claudine Gay, the former president of Harvard University, contributed to her leadership downfall in 2024. But what is really behind Rufo’s philosophy? What would the “colorblind equality” he prescribes for colleges actually look like in practice? And how far does he think President Trump should go to upend higher education?
00:00 - 7:40: Rufo’s path to conservatism
7:40 - 14:51: Politics of DEI
14:51 - 19:48 : Race and admissions
20:03 - 24:51: ‘Meritocracy’
24:51 - 31:02: Do you think race matters?
31:01 - 32:58: The Manhattan Institute
32:58 - 35:25: Harvard’s Claudine Gay
35:25 - 46:26: Sinking Santa Ono at U. of Florida
46:26 - 50:32: Rufo’s influence / George Mason U.
50:32 - 53:19: Calling in the troops
Related Reading:
They Have a Common Criticism of Higher Ed. And They’re Arguing. (chronicle.com/article/they-have-a-common-criticism-of-higher-ed-and-theyre-fighting?utm_campaign=che-pcm-pd-ep-sn-rufo&utm_medium=aud&utm_source=mgp&utm_content=25-09-10-slnk-e034-l1) (The Chronicle)
How a Conservative Activist Invented the Conflict Over Critical Race Theory (newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory?utm_campaign=che-pcm-pd-ep-sn-rufo&utm_medium=aud&utm_source=mgp&utm_content=25-09-10-slnk-e034-l2) (The New Yorker)
An Inside Job at George Mason? (chronicle.com/article/an-inside-job?utm_campaign=che-pcm-pd-ep-sn-rufo&utm_medium=aud&utm_source=mgp&utm_content=25-09-10-slnk-e034-l3) (The Chronicle/ProPublica)
Santa Ono Wanted a College Presidency. He Became a Pariah. (chronicle.com/article/he-wanted-a-presidency-he-became-a-pariah?utm_campaign=che-pcm-pd-ep-sn-rufo&utm_medium=aud&utm_source=mgp&utm_content=25-09-10-slnk-e034-l4) (The Chronicle)
Guest:
Christopher F. Rufo (https://manhattan.institute/person/christopher-f-rufo?utm_campaign=che-pcm-pd-ep-sn-rufo&utm_medium=aud&utm_source=mgp&utm_content=25-09-10-slnk-e034-l5) , a senior fellow and director of the initiative on critical race theory at the Manhattan Institute
For more on today’s episode, visit chronicle.com/collegematters (chronicle.com/collegematters) . We aim to make transcripts available within a day of an episode’s publication
Christopher F. Rufo, a conservative activist, is on what he might call a winning streak. Long before it was fashionable to do so, Rufo, a senior fellow at the right-leaning Manhattan Institute, was leading the charge against diversity, equity, and inclusion programs on college campuses. Now, many universities — by law or by choice — are ditching DEI programs as fast as they can. Beyond that, Rufo has waged numerous online pressure campaigns against college leaders, leading to the resignations or scuttled appointments of those who’ve extolled the virtues of DEI. His airing of plagiarism allegations against Claudine Gay, the former president of Harvard University, contributed to her leadership downfall in 2024. But what is really behind Rufo’s philosophy? What would the “colorblind equality” he prescribes for colleges actually look like in practice? And how far does he think President Trump should go to upend higher education?
00:00 - 7:40: Rufo’s path to conservatism
7:40 - 14:51: Politics of DEI
14:51 - 19:48 : Race and admissions
20:03 - 24:51: ‘Meritocracy’
24:51 - 31:02: Do you think race matters?
31:01 - 32:58: The Manhattan Institute
32:58 - 35:25: Harvard’s Claudine Gay
35:25 - 46:26: Sinking Santa Ono at U. of Florida
46:26 - 50:32: Rufo’s influence / George Mason U.
50:32 - 53:19: Calling in the troops
Related Reading:
They Have a Common Criticism of Higher Ed. And They’re Arguing. (chronicle.com/article/they-have-a-common-criticism-of-higher-ed-and-theyre-fighting?utm_campaign=che-pcm-pd-ep-sn-rufo&utm_medium=aud&utm_source=mgp&utm_content=25-09-10-slnk-e034-l1) (The Chronicle)
How a Conservative Activist Invented the Conflict Over Critical Race Theory (newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory?utm_campaign=che-pcm-pd-ep-sn-rufo&utm_medium=aud&utm_source=mgp&utm_content=25-09-10-slnk-e034-l2) (The New Yorker)
An Inside Job at George Mason? (chronicle.com/article/an-inside-job?utm_campaign=che-pcm-pd-ep-sn-rufo&utm_medium=aud&utm_source=mgp&utm_content=25-09-10-slnk-e034-l3) (The Chronicle/ProPublica)
Santa Ono Wanted a College Presidency. He Became a Pariah. (chronicle.com/article/he-wanted-a-presidency-he-became-a-pariah?utm_campaign=che-pcm-pd-ep-sn-rufo&utm_medium=aud&utm_source=mgp&utm_content=25-09-10-slnk-e034-l4) (The Chronicle)
Guest:
Christopher F. Rufo (https://manhattan.institute/person/christopher-f-rufo?utm_campaign=che-pcm-pd-ep-sn-rufo&utm_medium=aud&utm_source=mgp&utm_content=25-09-10-slnk-e034-l5) , a senior fellow and director of the initiative on critical race theory at the Manhattan Institute
For more on today’s episode, visit chronicle.com/collegematters (chronicle.com/collegematters) . We aim to make transcripts available within a day of an episode’s publication
