Uploaded May 2026 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago
On this latest episode of Always at War, Courtney and Alex sit down with Jake Werner, head of the Quincy Institute’s East Asia program, to find out the answer to the question on everyone's lips in Washington: China bad?
First, the three discuss the pervasive, bipartisan myth that Beijing wants to supplant America's role as the global military hegemon, tracing how the US foreign policy establishment systematically moved China from an economic partner to an existential enemy to avoid introspection about its own domestic and foreign policy blunders.
Next, they explore the economic consequences of the neoliberal free-trade regime and the great recession, and how these crises left Washington casting about for anyone to blame but themselves.
Finally, they examine why Washington is embracing the very tendencies it attacks China for — like ramping up McCarthyite surveillance and state-directed militarism — while largely ignoring the diplomatic opportunities to build a stable, mutually beneficial global system.
Make sure to check out some of Jake's research:
A Program for Progressive China Policy
quincyinst.org/research/a-program-for-progressive-china-policy
An Opening for a New US–China Economic Relationship
quincyinst.org/research/an-opening-for-a-new-us-china-economic-relationship
Competition Versus Exclusion in U.S.–China Relations: A Choice Between Stability and Conflict
quincyinst.org/research/competition-versus-exclusion-in-u-s-china-relations-a-choice-between-stability-and-conflict/#
00:00 – Intro: screaming, crying, and throwing up about...China!
04:19 – Does China actually want to take over the world?
12:34 – The 2008 crash and the moment America lost its confidence
16:52 – Blaming Beijing and building ports vs. building battleships
26:31 – Why we can’t just break up with China
38:39 – How rivalry lets DC off the hook
44:31 – What Trump wants from the Xi meeting
54:57 – Is a better relationship possible, or is conflict inevitable?
###
Why is America seemingly always at war? Join the Quincy Institute’s Courtney Rawlings and Alex Jordan as they expose the monied interests, outdated ideologies, and entrenched powers that have driven the U.S. to wage nearly 400 wars and interventions.
They’ll be joined by journalists, advocates, and experts to uncover who profits from America’s endless conflicts, and to imagine how we can build a better, more peaceful U.S. foreign policy.
Learn more about the Quincy Institute: quincyinst.org
Contact the show: alwaysatwar@quincyinst.org
Show art by Justin Hantz
###
Quincy Institute is an independent, nonprofit think tank.
Help fund our research: quincyinst.org/donations
Read our reporting: ResponsibleStatecraft.org
Twitter: https://x.com/QuincyInst
TikTok: tiktok.com/quincyinst
Facebook: facebook.com/quincyinst
Instagram: instagram.com//quincyinst
Website: quincyinst.org
On this latest episode of Always at War, Courtney and Alex sit down with Jake Werner, head of the Quincy Institute’s East Asia program, to find out the answer to the question on everyone's lips in Washington: China bad?
First, the three discuss the pervasive, bipartisan myth that Beijing wants to supplant America's role as the global military hegemon, tracing how the US foreign policy establishment systematically moved China from an economic partner to an existential enemy to avoid introspection about its own domestic and foreign policy blunders.
Next, they explore the economic consequences of the neoliberal free-trade regime and the great recession, and how these crises left Washington casting about for anyone to blame but themselves.
Finally, they examine why Washington is embracing the very tendencies it attacks China for — like ramping up McCarthyite surveillance and state-directed militarism — while largely ignoring the diplomatic opportunities to build a stable, mutually beneficial global system.
Make sure to check out some of Jake's research:
A Program for Progressive China Policy
quincyinst.org/research/a-program-for-progressive-china-policy
An Opening for a New US–China Economic Relationship
quincyinst.org/research/an-opening-for-a-new-us-china-economic-relationship
Competition Versus Exclusion in U.S.–China Relations: A Choice Between Stability and Conflict
quincyinst.org/research/competition-versus-exclusion-in-u-s-china-relations-a-choice-between-stability-and-conflict/#
00:00 – Intro: screaming, crying, and throwing up about...China!
04:19 – Does China actually want to take over the world?
12:34 – The 2008 crash and the moment America lost its confidence
16:52 – Blaming Beijing and building ports vs. building battleships
26:31 – Why we can’t just break up with China
38:39 – How rivalry lets DC off the hook
44:31 – What Trump wants from the Xi meeting
54:57 – Is a better relationship possible, or is conflict inevitable?
###
Why is America seemingly always at war? Join the Quincy Institute’s Courtney Rawlings and Alex Jordan as they expose the monied interests, outdated ideologies, and entrenched powers that have driven the U.S. to wage nearly 400 wars and interventions.
They’ll be joined by journalists, advocates, and experts to uncover who profits from America’s endless conflicts, and to imagine how we can build a better, more peaceful U.S. foreign policy.
Learn more about the Quincy Institute: quincyinst.org
Contact the show: alwaysatwar@quincyinst.org
Show art by Justin Hantz
###
Quincy Institute is an independent, nonprofit think tank.
Help fund our research: quincyinst.org/donations
Read our reporting: ResponsibleStatecraft.org
Twitter: https://x.com/QuincyInst
TikTok: tiktok.com/quincyinst
Facebook: facebook.com/quincyinst
Instagram: instagram.com//quincyinst
Website: quincyinst.org
