Uploaded January 2026 | Updated September 2026, 10 hours ago
Let’s face it, even “good” macro talk can fall into the trap of treating the economy like a tidy spreadsheet while real lives get crushed in the margins. To help us peer beneath the covers, Steve invited Emma Holten, a Copenhagen-based political economist to talk about her book Deficit: How Feminist Economics Can Change Our World. We often discuss deficits around here, but Emma is looking at a different kind. She reframes deficit as what societies rack up when they systematically undervalue care: the paid and unpaid labor (still disproportionately done by women) that keeps people healthy, capable, and alive.
Emma and Steve discuss the way mainstream economics has long treated the home, the body, and the mind as a black box, as if workers spring fully formed from the soil and arrive at the labor market already fed, healed, soothed, socialized, and ready to produce.
They talk about measurement and the way the GDP counts a $3,000 ambulance bill as added value instead of predatory extraction. They also look at power and social cohesion. Steve connects Emma’s thesis to MMT’s real-resources focus and the Job Guarantee as a way to fund socially necessary work that markets underprovide, while also admitting the hard question: even if policy is sound, capital and its political machinery never volunteer to be disarmed.
Emma Holten is a feminist activist and gender policy consultant. Since 2018, she has worked with feminist economics. In 2024 she published her first book “DEFICIT – On the value of care” in Danish. It is available in English, Swedish, Norwegian, German, Dutch, and Italian – and forthcoming in 6 other languages. It has won the Politiken Literature Prize, The Library Reader’s Prize, The Sara Danius Prize, The Sprout Prize and was shortlisted for the Montana Literature Award.
Chapters with Timestamps
Introduction & Framing
0:00 – Host Steve introduces the podcast and sets up the topic of feminist economics.
Introducing Emma Holten & Her Book
1:52 – Steve introduces Emma Holten, her background, and her book "Deficit: How Feminist Economics Can Change Our World."
Defining Feminist Economics
4:00 – Emma explains what feminist economics is and why it matters.
Care Work & Economic Value
7:40 – Discussion about unpaid care work, its invisibility in economic theory, and its impact on society.
Personal Anecdotes & Real-World Impact
14:03 – Steve shares personal stories to illustrate the real-life effects of economic structures.
Parental Leave & Gender Imbalance
20:44 – The conversation shifts to parental leave, workplace expectations, and gendered burdens.
The Mushroom Metaphor & Interconnectedness
27:25 – Emma and Steve discuss the metaphor of mushrooms/mycelium to explain social and economic interconnectedness.
Community, Value, and Neoliberalism
34:08 – The impact of neoliberal policies on communities, value systems, and social cohesion.
MMT, Job Guarantee, and Public Investment
41:58 – Exploring Modern Monetary Theory, job guarantees, and the role of public investment in care.
Political Hegemony & Organizing Around Care
49:30 – How political narratives shape economic policy and the potential for organizing around care.
Bridging Political Divides Through Care
55:45 – Stories of finding common ground across political divides by focusing on care and lived experience.
Conclusion & Call to Action
1:00:17 – Final thoughts, where to find Emma’s work, and a call to support the podcast and its mission.
Weaponize Knowledge with Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
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We believe all materials used in this video fall under Fair Use as defined in Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976.
#mmt
Weaponize Knowledge with Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Please help our Real Progressives efforts in spreading and become a monthly donor!
At PayPal
paypal.me/RealProgressives/25
At Patreon
patreon.com/realprogressives
Write for Real Progressives
realprogressives.org/submit-an-article
Visit our website:
realprogressives.org
Listen to our podcast:
realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast
We believe all materials used in this video fall under Fair Use as defined in Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976.
Let’s face it, even “good” macro talk can fall into the trap of treating the economy like a tidy spreadsheet while real lives get crushed in the margins. To help us peer beneath the covers, Steve invited Emma Holten, a Copenhagen-based political economist to talk about her book Deficit: How Feminist Economics Can Change Our World. We often discuss deficits around here, but Emma is looking at a different kind. She reframes deficit as what societies rack up when they systematically undervalue care: the paid and unpaid labor (still disproportionately done by women) that keeps people healthy, capable, and alive.
Emma and Steve discuss the way mainstream economics has long treated the home, the body, and the mind as a black box, as if workers spring fully formed from the soil and arrive at the labor market already fed, healed, soothed, socialized, and ready to produce.
They talk about measurement and the way the GDP counts a $3,000 ambulance bill as added value instead of predatory extraction. They also look at power and social cohesion. Steve connects Emma’s thesis to MMT’s real-resources focus and the Job Guarantee as a way to fund socially necessary work that markets underprovide, while also admitting the hard question: even if policy is sound, capital and its political machinery never volunteer to be disarmed.
Emma Holten is a feminist activist and gender policy consultant. Since 2018, she has worked with feminist economics. In 2024 she published her first book “DEFICIT – On the value of care” in Danish. It is available in English, Swedish, Norwegian, German, Dutch, and Italian – and forthcoming in 6 other languages. It has won the Politiken Literature Prize, The Library Reader’s Prize, The Sara Danius Prize, The Sprout Prize and was shortlisted for the Montana Literature Award.
Chapters with Timestamps
Introduction & Framing
0:00 – Host Steve introduces the podcast and sets up the topic of feminist economics.
Introducing Emma Holten & Her Book
1:52 – Steve introduces Emma Holten, her background, and her book "Deficit: How Feminist Economics Can Change Our World."
Defining Feminist Economics
4:00 – Emma explains what feminist economics is and why it matters.
Care Work & Economic Value
7:40 – Discussion about unpaid care work, its invisibility in economic theory, and its impact on society.
Personal Anecdotes & Real-World Impact
14:03 – Steve shares personal stories to illustrate the real-life effects of economic structures.
Parental Leave & Gender Imbalance
20:44 – The conversation shifts to parental leave, workplace expectations, and gendered burdens.
The Mushroom Metaphor & Interconnectedness
27:25 – Emma and Steve discuss the metaphor of mushrooms/mycelium to explain social and economic interconnectedness.
Community, Value, and Neoliberalism
34:08 – The impact of neoliberal policies on communities, value systems, and social cohesion.
MMT, Job Guarantee, and Public Investment
41:58 – Exploring Modern Monetary Theory, job guarantees, and the role of public investment in care.
Political Hegemony & Organizing Around Care
49:30 – How political narratives shape economic policy and the potential for organizing around care.
Bridging Political Divides Through Care
55:45 – Stories of finding common ground across political divides by focusing on care and lived experience.
Conclusion & Call to Action
1:00:17 – Final thoughts, where to find Emma’s work, and a call to support the podcast and its mission.
Weaponize Knowledge with Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Please help our Real Progressives efforts in spreading and become a monthly donor!
At PayPal
paypal.me/RealProgressives/25
At Patreon
patreon.com/realprogressives
Donorbox
donorbox.org/each-one-teach-one-3
Write for Real Progressives
realprogressives.org/submit-an-article
Visit our website:
realprogressives.org
Listen to our podcast:
realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast
Subscribe to our Substack:
realprogressives.substack.com
We believe all materials used in this video fall under Fair Use as defined in Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976.
#mmt
Weaponize Knowledge with Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Please help our Real Progressives efforts in spreading and become a monthly donor!
At PayPal
paypal.me/RealProgressives/25
At Patreon
patreon.com/realprogressives
Write for Real Progressives
realprogressives.org/submit-an-article
Visit our website:
realprogressives.org
Listen to our podcast:
realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast
We believe all materials used in this video fall under Fair Use as defined in Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976.
