Uploaded November 2023 | Updated September 2026, 2 hours ago
Norman Finkelstein, historian and radical leftist icon, and Aaron Maté, of The Grayzone and Useful Idiots, in a provocative discussion about Israel's war on Gaza, the meaning of Hamas' atrocities, the question of genocide and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, and U.S. complicity.
He asks, can we compare what Hamas did on Oct. 7 to Nat Turner's slave revolt and the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising?
Was this the "Gazan Slave Revolt"?
=======================================
OR Books Publishing Company (orbooks.com/)
Norman Finkelstein/OR Books: orbooks.com/norman-finkelstein
The Free-Palestine Reading List: orbooks.com/catalog/middle-east/free-palestine-reading-list
=======================================
Table of Contents:
00:00:00 - Intro by Colin Robinson
00:02:22 - Aaron Maté introduces Norman Finkelstein
00:03:54 - Israel's endgame in Gaza: genocide?
00:04:10 - Depleted by Gazan suffering
00:05:26 - Inspired by Rosa Luxemburg, German revolutionary
00:08:11 - Israel's goal: put the “subhumans” in their place
00:11:33 - Restoring Israel’s deterrence, restoring Arab fear of Israel
00:13:44 - What happened on October 7 and how?
00:16:27 - A shattering blow to Israel
00:18:16 - Israel main weapon: “their fear of us”
00:18:49 - Israel uses Oct. 7 as casus belli for final solution to Gaza problem.
00:20:43 - One goal: forced transfer of Palestinians into Egyptian Sinai
00:23:08 - Another goal: complete destruction of Gazan society
00:25:00 - Hamas cannot prevail militarily over Israel
00:26:35 - International pressure won’t stop Israel
00:29:30 - Regional spread: Hezbollah’s involvement, Nasrallah’s speech
00:31:02 - Iran unlikely to risk regional war
00:31:37 - Nasrallah “will not let Hamas lose”
00:34:38 - Biden’s call for humanitarian pause, endorsed by Bernie Sanders
00:35:26- Nasrallah and Noam Chomsky blame the US as main “evildoer,” not Israel
00:37:14 - Oct. 7, a disaster for Biden’s Middle East policy, needs to restore Israel’s deterrence
00:40:33 - Role of Jewish donors on elections and U.S. support of Israel
00:44:18 - Donors threaten universities
00:46:42 - Did Hamas serve Palestinian interests with Oct. 7 attack?
00:47:38 - Hamas committed atrocities: Was it worth it?
00:49:07 - Analogy: Nat Turner’s slave revolt
00:54:38 - John Brown’s insurrection
00:57:53 - Direct links in a chain to emancipation
00:58:04 - Hamas is a link in a chain, like Nat Turner and John Brown
00:59:33 - Analogy: Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, was it worth it?
01:01:57 - Impossible to condemn Nat Turner and Hamas (Gazans)
01:03:39 - Israel thwarted “Palestinian peace offensive”
01:05:51- Bernie Sanders & AIPAC: eliminate Hamas, oppose ceasefire
01:08:28 - Hamas proposed “Hudna”, or truce, which Israel rejected
01:10:04 - Gazans support Hamas, as Blacks supported Nat Turner
01:11:32 - Nonviolent tactics in Gaza failed
01:15:42 - Norman nearly gave up in 2020, the cause looked dead, abandoned
01:17:42 - Gaza had no options left, were doomed
01:20:03 - Cannot condemn Hamas
01:20:27 - Question: role of energy, gas reserves in Gaza; critiques of BDS
01:22:58 - Not opposed to BDS tactics, opposed to the formal organization
01:23:58 - The right slogans for this moment: ceasefire now, lift blockade of Gaza, end ethnic cleansing in West Bank
01:26:10 - Demonstrations have been thrilling, yet “From the River to the Sea” is unwise slogan
01:29:44 - Question:
01:30:46 - Should Palestinians give up , live somewhere else?
01:37:03 - Question: Israel’s violations of international law in Gaza attack
01:38:49 - Moral idiocy to deny Israel is violating international humanitarian law
01:40:53 - Israel’s plan is genocidal
01:42:22 - International laws of war are insane
01:46:36 - Jabalia refugee camp was a legitimate target?
01:48:49 - Israel killed more children in Gaza than all war zones combined from 2020-2022
Norman Finkelstein, historian and radical leftist icon, and Aaron Maté, of The Grayzone and Useful Idiots, in a provocative discussion about Israel's war on Gaza, the meaning of Hamas' atrocities, the question of genocide and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, and U.S. complicity.
He asks, can we compare what Hamas did on Oct. 7 to Nat Turner's slave revolt and the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising?
Was this the "Gazan Slave Revolt"?
=======================================
OR Books Publishing Company (orbooks.com/)
Norman Finkelstein/OR Books: orbooks.com/norman-finkelstein
The Free-Palestine Reading List: orbooks.com/catalog/middle-east/free-palestine-reading-list
=======================================
Table of Contents:
00:00:00 - Intro by Colin Robinson
00:02:22 - Aaron Maté introduces Norman Finkelstein
00:03:54 - Israel's endgame in Gaza: genocide?
00:04:10 - Depleted by Gazan suffering
00:05:26 - Inspired by Rosa Luxemburg, German revolutionary
00:08:11 - Israel's goal: put the “subhumans” in their place
00:11:33 - Restoring Israel’s deterrence, restoring Arab fear of Israel
00:13:44 - What happened on October 7 and how?
00:16:27 - A shattering blow to Israel
00:18:16 - Israel main weapon: “their fear of us”
00:18:49 - Israel uses Oct. 7 as casus belli for final solution to Gaza problem.
00:20:43 - One goal: forced transfer of Palestinians into Egyptian Sinai
00:23:08 - Another goal: complete destruction of Gazan society
00:25:00 - Hamas cannot prevail militarily over Israel
00:26:35 - International pressure won’t stop Israel
00:29:30 - Regional spread: Hezbollah’s involvement, Nasrallah’s speech
00:31:02 - Iran unlikely to risk regional war
00:31:37 - Nasrallah “will not let Hamas lose”
00:34:38 - Biden’s call for humanitarian pause, endorsed by Bernie Sanders
00:35:26- Nasrallah and Noam Chomsky blame the US as main “evildoer,” not Israel
00:37:14 - Oct. 7, a disaster for Biden’s Middle East policy, needs to restore Israel’s deterrence
00:40:33 - Role of Jewish donors on elections and U.S. support of Israel
00:44:18 - Donors threaten universities
00:46:42 - Did Hamas serve Palestinian interests with Oct. 7 attack?
00:47:38 - Hamas committed atrocities: Was it worth it?
00:49:07 - Analogy: Nat Turner’s slave revolt
00:54:38 - John Brown’s insurrection
00:57:53 - Direct links in a chain to emancipation
00:58:04 - Hamas is a link in a chain, like Nat Turner and John Brown
00:59:33 - Analogy: Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, was it worth it?
01:01:57 - Impossible to condemn Nat Turner and Hamas (Gazans)
01:03:39 - Israel thwarted “Palestinian peace offensive”
01:05:51- Bernie Sanders & AIPAC: eliminate Hamas, oppose ceasefire
01:08:28 - Hamas proposed “Hudna”, or truce, which Israel rejected
01:10:04 - Gazans support Hamas, as Blacks supported Nat Turner
01:11:32 - Nonviolent tactics in Gaza failed
01:15:42 - Norman nearly gave up in 2020, the cause looked dead, abandoned
01:17:42 - Gaza had no options left, were doomed
01:20:03 - Cannot condemn Hamas
01:20:27 - Question: role of energy, gas reserves in Gaza; critiques of BDS
01:22:58 - Not opposed to BDS tactics, opposed to the formal organization
01:23:58 - The right slogans for this moment: ceasefire now, lift blockade of Gaza, end ethnic cleansing in West Bank
01:26:10 - Demonstrations have been thrilling, yet “From the River to the Sea” is unwise slogan
01:29:44 - Question:
01:30:46 - Should Palestinians give up , live somewhere else?
01:37:03 - Question: Israel’s violations of international law in Gaza attack
01:38:49 - Moral idiocy to deny Israel is violating international humanitarian law
01:40:53 - Israel’s plan is genocidal
01:42:22 - International laws of war are insane
01:46:36 - Jabalia refugee camp was a legitimate target?
01:48:49 - Israel killed more children in Gaza than all war zones combined from 2020-2022
