Are AI Agents forming "civilizations" or is this just a psy op?

Uploaded August 2026 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago

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Today’s show:

Hugging Face's $399 Microduck and the art of companies taking on side quests. Then, we get into Dwarkesh Patel's "The Rise and Fall of Agent Civilizations," which blew up online this weekend. Jason calls the "secret AI civilization" framing deliberate PR, and thinks it's inflammatory enough that someone might attack a data center over it.
Then, Anders Forslund of Heart Aerospace shows off the X1, a battery-powered electric airliner designed for regional flights that can fly for 30 minutes on just $5 of juice. PLUS, we've got John Yu of Bitsec explaining how his subnet project outperformed Fable 5 in website vulnerability checks.

Guests:

Anders Forslund on X: https://x.com/AndersForslund1?s=2
Heart Aerospace: heartaerospace.com
John Yu on X: https://x.com/yubrew
Bitsec: sentios.io & sentios.io

Relevant Links:

MicroDuck: pollen-robotics.com/microduck
Dwarkesh Patel, "The Rise and Fall of Agent Civilizations," dwarkesh.com/p/openai-huggingface
Dwarkesh's launch thread on X: https://x.com/dwarkesh_sp/status/2093833419377815719
METR's independent investigation of the OpenAI/Hugging Face incident: metr.org/blog/2026-08-26-openai-hugging-face-incident-investigation
X1 first flight announcement — heartaerospace.com/newsroom/heart-aerospace-completes-first-flight-of-world-s-largest-electric-aircraft
JSX (JetSuiteX) — jsx.com
Pilatus PC-12 —pilatus-aircraft.com/en/fly/pc-12
Surf Air — surfair.com
Zcash → https://z.cash/
Timestamps:
0:00 Is Hugging Face's Microduck the greatest side quest ever?
4:48 Jason puts Clem Delangue and Jensen Huang in charge of AI PR
10:37 Northwest Registered Agent - Got a new business idea? Northwest Registered Agent helps you bring it to life. Get a free domain, email, phone number, and more - with no purchase required! Learn more at northwestregisteredagent.com/twistdomain
18:12 Top story: Dwarkesh Patel's "The Rise and Fall of Agent Civilizations"
18:39 Why agents act like people: they were trained on us
18:47 CLA - Innovation takes balance. CLA's CPAs, consultants, and wealth advisors can help you get from startup to where you want to end up. Get started now at claconnect.com/withyou
21:06 "I know good PR when I see it"
22:28 The prompt Jason says OpenAI should have written instead
26:01 The data center backlash and the politicians who will flip
29:24 Rippling - Don't settle for AI that's all talk. Head to Rippling.ai/twist to get the only AI built to give you full visibility across your startup and take complex actions across your entire business.
32:36 Guest: Anders Forslund, Heart Aerospace, and the X1's first flight
38:57 Turboprops vs. jets and the regional routes America lost
41:50 JSX, Santa Monica Airport, and 5,000 underused airports
44:11 Why Boeing won't build this: the innovator's dilemma
52:31 Guest: John Yu, Bitsec — Bittensor Subnet 60
54:18 How the subnet works: miners, validators, $10K a day
56:34 Bitsec vs. a frontier model: 160+ vulnerabilities to 60
58:54 Was the agent civilization story a pre-IPO PR play?
1:04:27 Sentios.io and continuous coverage

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Are AI Agents forming civilizations or is this just a psy op? | 2332

$No one has done it in decades. Most see it as a sign not to try. This founder saw it as opportunity. There hasnt been a successful new US car company since decades. Elon saw the opportunity anyway, and Tesla is now booming. No one has started a successful fighter jet manufacturer since the 1950s either. The F-22 and F-35 took over two decades and $30 to $60 billion to build. AJ Piplica took the same bet with Hermeus. 5x faster, for a fraction of the cost.$ $China Kills Meta / Manus Deal (Story Of The Year) | E2281 This Week In Startups is made possible by: IM8 Health - https://IM8health.com/twist Sentry - https://Sentry.io/twist Deel - https://Deel.com/twist Plaud - https://Plaud.ai/twist What’s the technology story of the year? No, it’s not Anthropic’s Mythos model, nor any other AI model. Upcoming IPOs? Wrong again. Jason thinks it’s China’s government’s decision to block Metas acquisition of Manus. The multi-billion-dollar deal was heralded as evidence that AI companies founded in China could sidestep onerous government meddling by moving their operations to Singapore. That loophole now appears closed. Jason and Lon then dug into the newly-reforged OpenAI-Microsoft partnership. The two companies have had a mutually beneficial, if fractious, operating relationship to date; that they had to rework their agreement is not a shock. Then, your hosts watched and digested a video from China purportedly showing a self-driving car hitting a child at speed. What would happen in the United States if such a tragedy struck? And is that fait accompli? Closing the show, Jason and Lon reacted to the latest Russell Brand implosion, discussed Lon’s new favorite show ‘Criminal Record,’ and shared recommended foot pedals (for AI dictation) and headphones for the road warriors tuning in. Key Links: OpenAI and Microsoft OpenAI’s announcement of its new Microsoft deal Microsoft’s announcement of its new OpenAI deal OpenAI announces its deal with AWS News that Microsoft was considering legal action against OpenAI Microsoft-OpenAI negotiations late 2025 edition, and terms announced in early 2026 Amazon announces that OpenAI models are coming to AWS Key Links: Manus, Meta, China News Coverage of China blocking the Manus deal Reporting on the Benchmark-Manus funding round The United States’ government examined the deal, recall Manus announcement of $100M ARR Early-2025 coverage of Manus as it blew up Coverage of Didi’s service suspension in 2018 How ‘Golden Shares’ work Key Links: Self-driving safety Huawei ADS accident video Waymo Santa Monica collision coverage Waymo safety data Cruise crash historical coverage, Waymo cat crash coverage How Japan teaches kids to be safe in traffic Key Links: Off Duty Russell Brand hasn’t read the Bible (clip) Why Brand was carrying a Bible Lon’s streaming pick: Criminal Record Jason’s recommended foot pedal Jason’s recommended headphones Timestamps: 0:00 Show starts 0:34 OpenAI and Microsoft have a new deal 2:32 Why would Microsoft cede exclusive access to OpenAI models? 4:53 Plaud: If your work depends on conversations — interviews, meetings, calls — you need a Plaud NotePin. You can check it out at https://Plaud.ai/twist and use code TWIST for 10% off! 7:19 Why Jason thinks Microsoft and Apple should work together on AI 8:55 China will block the Meta-Manus deal 11:28 Deel - Founders scale faster on Deel. Set up payroll for any country in minutes, hire anyone anywhere, get visas handled fast, and get back to building. Visit https://deel.com/twist to learn more. 11:33 Golden Shares and what they provide 14:07 How do you unravel a multi-billion-dollar deal? 21:25 Sentry - New users can get $240 in free credits when they go to https://sentry.io/twist and use the code TWIST 23:52 The Huawei ADC crash 28:59 What happens when something similar happens in the United States? 31:11 IM8 Health: Start feeling like your best self every day. Go to https://IM8health.com/twist and use the code TWiST to get a free welcome kit, five free travel sachets, and 10% off your order. 35:25 Russell Brands public humiliation 40:32 Dont trust palm reading! 43:09 Lons Off Duty streaming pick: Criminal Record 45:35 Jasons Pick: Which foot pedal for AI dictation is right for you? 47:53 Jasons Pick: In the market for new headphones? 48:43 Jasons Pick: In the market for new headphones? Subscribe to the TWiST500 newsletter: https://ticker.thisweekinstartups.com Check out the TWIST500: https://www.twist500.com Subscribe to This Week in Startups on Apple: https://rb.gy/v19fcp Follow Lon: X: https://x.com/lons Follow Alex: X: https://x.com/alex LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexwilhelm Follow Jason: X: https://twitter.com/Jason LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis Thank you to our partners: IM8 Health - https://IM8health.com/twist Sentry - https://Sentry.io/twist Deel - https://Deel.com/twist Plaud - https://Plaud.ai/twist Check out all our partner offers: https://partners.launch.co/ Great TWIST interviews: Will Guidara, Eoghan McCabe, Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Bob Moesta, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarland Check out Jason’s suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis Follow TWiST: Twitter: https://twitter.com/TWiStartups YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/thisweekin Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisweekinstartups TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thisweekinstartups Substack: https://twistartups.substack.com$

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