Uploaded July 2026 | Updated September 2026, 1 week ago
Democratic socialists are having a moment. But can they actually remake the Democratic Party — and the American economy — in their image? My guest today, Bhaskar Sunkara, is longtime democratic socialist, and he makes the case that socialism has a universal appeal that transcends our current politics and will ultimately triumph against capitalism.
00:00 Intro
1:24 The rise of democratic socialism
5:00 Why is this a breakthrough moment for Democratic Socialism?
8:24 Class Realities: The demographics of socialist voters
9:26 The intellectual foundations of the American left
11:02 What socialists want: Affordable housing, Medicare for All
15:55 Socialist housing policy: construction, rent control, public housing
18:17 The socialist approach to AI and technological change
22:16 The case for unions
24:18 Is Democratic Socialism compatible with capitalism?
25:57 Class conflict vs. the identity politics of the wokeness era
29:00 The ideological conflict between Hillary Clinton liberals and the Bernie Sanders left
30:40 This Socialist wants the left to stop hating America
36:38 Why Israel-Palestine and anti-imperialism are central issues for Democratic Socialists
45:51 Luigi Mangione and the illiberal left
50:37 Is Zohran Mamdani a moderate?
51:54 Was Joe Biden's presidency a socialist experiment?
55:42 Raising taxes to expand the welfare state
Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com.
Read the full transcript here: nytimes.com/2026/07/16/opinion/a-vision-of-a-society-without-capitalism.html
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Democratic socialists are having a moment. But can they actually remake the Democratic Party — and the American economy — in their image? My guest today, Bhaskar Sunkara, is longtime democratic socialist, and he makes the case that socialism has a universal appeal that transcends our current politics and will ultimately triumph against capitalism.
00:00 Intro
1:24 The rise of democratic socialism
5:00 Why is this a breakthrough moment for Democratic Socialism?
8:24 Class Realities: The demographics of socialist voters
9:26 The intellectual foundations of the American left
11:02 What socialists want: Affordable housing, Medicare for All
15:55 Socialist housing policy: construction, rent control, public housing
18:17 The socialist approach to AI and technological change
22:16 The case for unions
24:18 Is Democratic Socialism compatible with capitalism?
25:57 Class conflict vs. the identity politics of the wokeness era
29:00 The ideological conflict between Hillary Clinton liberals and the Bernie Sanders left
30:40 This Socialist wants the left to stop hating America
36:38 Why Israel-Palestine and anti-imperialism are central issues for Democratic Socialists
45:51 Luigi Mangione and the illiberal left
50:37 Is Zohran Mamdani a moderate?
51:54 Was Joe Biden's presidency a socialist experiment?
55:42 Raising taxes to expand the welfare state
Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com.
Read the full transcript here: nytimes.com/2026/07/16/opinion/a-vision-of-a-society-without-capitalism.html
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
