Tsuwien
Water Temple SS Teleport
updated
The backflip one I found from glitchless runs while checking out other alternate strats for this comparison.
All segments were recorded by me on an emulator (Pj64 1.7). Emulator has almost none of the lag console experiences. Some strategies used and the final time as a whole do not accurately reflect console play. Hopefully this can still be of use to someone.
Route Doc:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ROzMFHCDKwlN0wXCyRnBich0uyFS-0rK7NIDGxoiQRw/edit?usp=sharing
I'm sorry the splicing/savestating is very obvious in the child/early adult sections, I got better as the project advanced about it.
I know the equips after Boomerang are not optimal, I noticed that way too late and its going to haunt me. Optimal way is first pause for Hovers, go across the gap, then pause for Kokiris, scroll to items and equip Bombs + Boomerang. Fixed on the route doc.
Jumping should be marginally faster if you enter with more than 1,5 hearts, as the jump starts taking damage half a second faster.
Originally saw the jump to avoid Navi's text from Gsk8's stream.
Had to macro this one to make sure both were optimal.
For N64 MST, Child 2 DF route.
-Retarget and throw Boomerang again as it returns to Link to prevent targeting problems.
-After 3rd tentacle, throw Boomerang when camera is over Link's shoulder for good timing.
-Start charging spin attack right after (I use a spot on the ground and Links front feet for rough spot to stand on)
-For 2nd set of Baris, target and move back a little and time the Rang throw, charge spin attack right after, release asap.
Shield the first hit, roll when the Tektite stops moving backwards from recoil, 2 frames to backflip.
Release and retarget after surfacing to prevent hitting water again.
Works with or without the brown boulder there.
Saves about 1 second compared to Juwk's older setup:
youtube.com/watch?v=Q5zwvSzSdkg
I made a faster version of this that skips the backflip and sideroll, but it has only 1 frame to backflip on for the megaflip and inconsistent tektite movement, so I didnt make a vid.
1. Release target after sidehopping from the jumpslash clip and wait for Link to start floating up.
2. Tap down to stop Link from falling out of the water, then tap up again to have the right angle. Tapping down should not be made too fast or you might fall out of the water right after clipping the ceiling.
3. Float up until the top of C Left meets with the wall texture in the background (frozen frame), timing is not precise.
4. Hold target and straight right and watch Link's shadow to start moving right to see when you clipped, there is no clear glitchly animation for an indicator.
5. Let go of target and right after you clip and then swim left/upleftish in the water to gain some more height and then swim into the room. If you try to go straight to the room you wont have enough height to fall into it.
Sidehop timing from the jumpslash clip does change your position in the water slightly, but the timing to tap down and up again remains similar. Using the backup jumpslash position does not affect this either.
pastebin.com/4XmYqLVd
Small timesave for VC MST that almost nobody seems to do for some unknown reason.
1. Turn 180 and target.
2. Sidehop left, sideroll and release target, hold forward. Hold slightly upright to climb the ladder.
3. Keep holding forward and target, once Link touches the wall you can jumpslash to clip.
Holding forward with target held gives the right angle to clip.
Saves 3 to 2 seconds depending if you get quick jumpslash or not.
Depending on which megasidehopframe you get and if you have critical health determines what kind of camera you have during the trick.
Each instance (1st or 2nd megasidehopframe + Crit health or not) has atleast 4 working frames to start holding down on, which makes it easy to 1 pause that part of the trick and then proceed to the 2 frame perfect inputs.
When you equip kokiris matters aswell, vast majority work with equipping kokiris 2-4 frames after sidehopping.
Start holding target before pausing for hoverboots.
For Vpp who wanted to see, if I actually wanted to go fast I'd retarget during the sidehop to get consistent camera angle for shieldturn.
About as fast as it gets, its inconsistent though so need to find a better movement pattern for the angle.
Clips of Shadow and Fire trials with and without gauntlets.
For the lazy viewers:
Shadow with gauntlets 65.4s
Fire with gauntlets 70.5s
Total of 2:15.9
Shadow without gauntlets 40.4s
Fire without gauntlets 80.4
Clipping Light trial block saves 5 seconds
Total of 1:55.8
TL;DR
Skipping gauntlets saves 15 sec assuming you would get gauntlets but still superslide clip light trial block, 20s if you wouldnt ss clip.
Instant chupull is the fastest by 2 seconds compared to treehess and 4 seconds compared to fast peahat superslide.
For speedrun purposes if this is faster or not is up to debate, Yeti takes about a minute with the small cutscene and fight itself and gives a level and additional skill. Skipping the cutscene itself at Azudor saves about 5 seconds according to my own testing. In my opinion skipping Yeti this way is not faster.
Not the best showcase video as I didn't do any research before recording, but anyway:
To get past the fight trigger after beating Azudor, do not advance text after Gilda and Atalan start moving towards the exit, the cutscene only forcemoves Gilda after you clear the first textbox, so keeping it on screen allows you to reach the next area.
As normal, you cannot re-enter the fight area before talking to Tagrum Elder, so I go do that and make my way back, skip this part of the video, it is nothing special.
Once back in the area where Azudor is, his and Atalan's actors are there but inactive, the cutscene triggers are cleared as you triggered it upon leaving after the fight.
Hitting Azudor will trigger the fight again, and if you deplete his health he regains it, but does not jump to the top platform again every 25% hp he loses, neither he does summon demons anymore.
"Killing" Azudor again removes the health bar but the fight continues and Azudor essentially becomes immortal.
You can leave the area at anytime, I try to show some stuff in the room like pushing Azudor etc.
Side effect of triggering the bossfight again is that you will have the demonic bossfight music in Derelicts and Mausoleum atleast, I assume it will play in every area except the transition areas, like the one between Tagrum village and Mausoleum.
If you use Gilda's double jump combined with some air spells and soul switch, you can get over the Azudor fight trigger. Sadly there is a much higher trigger near the other end of the room, and the trigger you skipped wont disappear.
Beating Azudor like this causes the game to crash once he is beaten and the cutscene takes Gilda to the other (atleast currently) unskippabled trigger.
The crash report looks like this: http://puu.sh/iPTpG/0a3cf6d53d.png
If you hit either of the triggers during the fight the cutscene will start and the game softlocks, Azudor will run forward from his platform and hit Gilda twice at the beginning of the cutscene, so when he is supposed to hit Atalan, he does nothing and the cutscene wont advance.
The game softlock the same way if you hit the fight trigger high in the air, as for some reason Azudor will run forward towards Gilda instead of being on the ground in front of Atalan.
I believe the game will softlock if the cutscene is triggered when Azudor in visible on screen, or if the fight has already started (by hitting Azudor after skipping the first trigger).
Can do all bossfights better, really awful in this run were Magus, Lozzo, Treu and Gernot.
Dumb mistakes all over the place.
Not happy with this run, its shit and can be beaten once I stop being a retard.
If you use Axon more on the way through Tagrum/Mausoleum/Gardens, she can be lvl2 before this fight making it even faster, but you will lose time due to slower skill cancel refresh from Axon hitting enemies.
If someone is actually interested in specific inputs, comment or something, I wont bother typing them out otherwise.
Sub 40 seconds is a good fight, killing Shu where I do in this fight depends on crits/afflictions and if your combo gets interrupted by rng poison bubbles.
Ignore my inability to dodge incredibly slow moving ice projectiles.
Treu has some mechanics that need to be kept in mind during the fight:
- He will always teleport away if a combo of 10 hits is done on him
- After being knocked down from a middle, he will always teleport away of 10 hit combo or if the player does not hit him for couple seconds.
Using Ash Bringer (down fire spell) it is possible to keep hitting him without exceeding the 9 hit combo mark (10th hit would make him teleport) as Ash Bringer does not count towards a combo streak.
Knocking him down, and pushing him towards the edge of the platform, refreshing God Hand and resetting the combo meter with Ash Bringer casts allows you to jump over Treu and then combo him towards the other end of the platform, where you can repeat the process except for refreshing God Hand again.
Using Focus mode during this fight saves few seconds according to my testing, so it might be better to save it for something else (Feral Manawar for example).
Never use Faolan to damage Treu, the damage is bad and the knockback from his attack will just mess up Treu's positioning.
One thing to be careful of is to either skill cancel dodge on the last Lightning phase or stand under Treu to not get hit. If you stand near the edge of the platform and get hit by the lightning, it is quite possible to be knocked down.
I have tested various things that shouldnt matter like how you stun the tentacle, if you hit D during the small cutscene after the shield breaks, if you use Faolan or not, if you use focus or not etc... I dont understand.
These are my own thoughts about this method, feel free to agree or disagree.
This method has 2 problems: One is having to struggle free of the Yeti's grasp which can take up to 2-3 seconds or be almost instantaneous depending where you get grabbed and apparently rng, the speed of which I press left and right does not vary that much.
Second problem is the Decoy itself and how many backhits you get per grasp. In my testing I found the method I use in the video, which is cast Decoy, move back a little so the Yeti wont recoil behind you and then hold towards him and mash heavy attack. This seemed to work the best but the number of hits still varied between only a couple to 4-5. If I got few hits the fight lenght would be prolonged to 55+ seconds, and that is if I otherwise played perfectly. In comparison, with the other method you can get frozen once and still get 52-55 second fight.
In the video I use Golden rush for more damage while avoiding the smash, you can use skill cancel instead as it will regenerate itself everytime you get grabbed, but when I timed the fight with skill cancel, I couldnt get below 55 seconds even with good rng.
On the other hand, being able to skill cancel every smash attack makes this method much easier but in worst case much slower.
I also tried to just cast God Hand in the beginning and get grabbed by his first attack which I usually avoid by moving a bit to the side. This method was also slower as I didnt have increased attack speed until his first ice shower spell (I refresh both buffs after canceling the channel).
Ok this description is long as hell but I wanted to include all the info I could think of for Caramel. Also sorry about the shitty audio, I was lazy and didnt use my headset while recording.
TL;DR: Other method is faster but harder, I'll do it instead of this.
Changing Aegis to Golden Rush for more damage from the spell itself and more backhits makes Yeti the most difficult boss battle in the run.
Avoiding the smash attack with Golden rush requires specific timing and you cannot be in midair, which is why I dontt do aerial attacks as much.
Changing to this strat saves about 15-20 seconds over using Aegis.
Also, getting a sub 50 Yeti is incredibly hard, if you get grabbed or frozen even once its over, it might require some luck in the from of crits aswell.
This was a derust run, except for 1 runthrough with some strat testing the previous day, I had not touched the game in months.
Overall average at best gameplay except for horrible menuing. Pb came from fixing 2 major mistakes my previous pb had in Engineer's Palace and the Sanctuary segments.
Will go for 55 or 56 in the future.
Start with a straight angle, align with the door if needed.
Jump to the hand and keep your angle, get past the elbow of the statue and turn 90 to the right.
Walk forward until you can't see the statues arm on the right side of Link's shield, you can keep tapping up since Link will slowly move towards the right.
Shield scoot down for 2 frames, turn around and c-upn
Align the A-Button with the corner of the statues arm, how high the A-Button is can vary depending where Link is standing but the angle is more important than slight position variances.
Do a first frame forward roll and target during the jump so Link aligns with the statue (I buffer this part as I would in a run) and jumpslash couple frames later, the jumpslash window is big.
Align with the wall on the shoulder of the statue and sidehop 4 times.
Backflip 4 times, shieldflick or retarget and neutral roll, backflip 3 more times. The 4 backflips alone wont position Link at the corner where you want to be.
Turn 90 to the right, target and ESS turn 2 frames to the left. This gives a good angle for the jump.
Pull out stick, hold target and pause, hold the control stick up-rightish until the cursor in the pause menu stops going between the 2 medallion positions and stays on the upper one.
Hold the control stick angle through the jump and jumpslash (theres few frames to jumpslash on with no special visual cues), hold up for the jumpslash and switch to upleft while Link is sliding on the statue, holding upleft prevents Link from getting stuck on the statue, essentially softlocking.
Make your way down the other arm and jump to adult side, if you jumpslash with a stick angle yourself so you wont hit the Armos with the stick.
Long description is long but atleast its way more informative than my previous upload of this.


