Nick Breeze ClimateGenn
Responses to COP26 Glasgow
updated
genn.cc/2023-overshoot to view the full article and background interviews.
Correction in script: Rafe Pomerance spoke in Cambridge in 2018, not 2019 as is recorded above. This has been updated in the transcript linked to on Genn.cc.
[Overshoot Commission COP27 presentation is available to watch on Genn.cc for Patreon backers - genn.cc/overshoot-commission-cop27 ]
Dan has extensive experience working with the US negotiating team over the years and shares his insights as to what motivates negotiators and how the nature pot the COP’s themselves are changing from bureaucratic conferences to mega-COP jamborees where the circus atmosphere leeches into the proceedings and influences the outcomes.
However, none of this appears to be stemming the rise of global emissions to below 1.5ºC, the scientific red line that is commonly used to measure the effectiveness of climate policy.
As the breakdown of trust between Global North and South countries continues to haunt the talks, a new think tank appeared at COP27 called The Overshoot Commission tasking itself with looking at navigating a climatically unstable world.
With geoengineering in the form of carbon dioxide removal and solar radiation management firmly back on the table, Dan highlights that these investigations are currently about the exclusion of technologies that will not deliver, rather than the selection of technologies for deployment.
The clock ticks and the world is moving into new territory on multiple fronts.
Thank you for listening to this podcast. Please check the genn.cc website for the full COP27 interview and session list. Patreon backers will have access to extra content collected from the conference.
I come from the Maldives, so 99% of the Maldivian territory is ocean. And like many Island communities, we have a very strong connection with our ocean. The Maldives already experience the effects of the climate crisis. It is not by choice that we are positioned at the frontlines of this battle. However, we are determined to fight it and that is why in that spirit, the Maldivian government has set an ambitious target to reach net zero by 2030, on the condition that we can achieve international support from our partners
The ocean is oftentimes only thought as a victim of the climate crisis. But for the Maldives, we have nowhere else but the ocean to look for solutions. And so for us, the ocean is full of solutions. Ocean habitats of the Maldives include mangroves, coral reefs, sea grasses, beds that provide cost effective and less risky nature based solutions with win-win benefits of mitigation and adaptation. These blue carbon ecosystems are some of the world's most efficient absorbers of carbon dioxide and long-term carbon sinks.
It was in this background that I did my postgraduate research to determine the potential of Maldives' blue carbon ecosystems, including the seagrass beds and mangroves. I used global datasets and my findings suggest that there's a realistic and strong possibility that the carbon sequestration potential of our mangroves and seagrasses could in total offset national emissions. This presents us with a very unique opportunity at a very pivotal time as we explore climate mitigation strategies to achieve our carbon neutrality pledge. These sea grasses and mangroves should not only be thought of as carbon sinks, but they also provide valuable ecosystem services, extensive core benefits to communities. They provide coastal protection, they improve water quality, and they act as nurseries for crucial biodiversity. All of these things which help coastal communities like us, enhance our national economies. Next steps for the Maldives will be to explore the possibility of including these ecosystems in our NDCs. In order to do this, we have multiple steps that we have to get to. We need to reduce some of the scientific uncertainty by quantifying the exact carbon content and the rate of accumulation within these mangroves and seagrasses.
Currently, the global supply of certified blue carbon credits is far outpaced by increasing demand. Some key factors that I think are high quality blue carbon development relate to ecosystem complexity, knowledge gaps and unique funding needs. The research gap has now closed considerably. Robust metal methodologies now exist, but must still be socialized and adopted.
The Maldivian government is now in the process of formulating our marine spatial plan, which allow for a more strategic and sustainable use of our common natural resources. We are also designating one island, one coral reef, and one mangrove in each of our atolls as a protected area, thereby establishing our 70 protected areas in our national waters.
I also think it is very crucial to bring the private sector into this domain. Some projects in the Maldives are looking at facilitating tourism, businesses knowledge of blue carbon and create clear pathways for protection, management and restoration of these habitats. For too long ocean habitats have been largely absent from the UNFCCC system. But the tide is turning and I hope that blue carbon is given the recognition it deserves and that countries consider blue carbon ecosystems as a key part of their mitigation actions.
I want to end on note that we have to be cautious with how we frame this narrative of blue carbon as a solution for climate action. The mitigation potential of blue carbon ecosystems should be seen as supplementary to the immediate and urgent requirement to reduce emissions within this decade to stay at the 1.5 C target. Thank you for your attention.
Brad Ack (Exec. Dir. Ocean Visions): I would echo Shaun, that the ocean has enormous upside potential but we are in our infancy in understanding how these accelerated carbon removal technologies might work and how they might scale. It's not just science, its engineering, its economics, its social and political considerations, governance, etc. We're not putting anywhere near enough time and effort into what what is an area that has a great deal of potential. We don't want to leave the impression that any of these things have been figured out yet, because they haven't. But we haven't invested in figuring them out. We we need to really ramp up a whole range of controlled field trials across every single pathway that's been mentioned, with very clear external third party monitoring and verification, transparency in all of the data so that we can produce information for the policymakers at bodies like UNFCCC to determine where are we going to get this massive carbon removal that is not negotiable.
Brad Ack
My name is Brad Ack. I'm the executive director of an organization called Ocean visions, which is a collaborative partnership of research and scientific institutions, with practitioners and marine managers that looks for solutions to critical problems facing the ocean. And there's no problem more critical and dangerous than the impacts caused by too much carbon in the atmosphere. The 2 trillion tonnes of co2 that we've put into the atmosphere since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, are heating and acidifying the ocean. These are the two largest threats to the health of the ocean over time. And so working on things like carbon dioxide removal is not only good for the climate, and not only imperative for the climate, but also for the health of the ocean itself.
Brad Ack
So essentially, we're looking at whether the ocean can play a role in healing itself and healing the climate. Shaun mentioned we have to have removal. The IPCC, scientific body for the UNFFFC, has said that every scenario to get to 1.5 degrees includes pretty significant amounts of removal between 100 and 1000 Giga tons of carbon, a gigaton is a billion tons, so 100-200 billion tons to a trillion tons of carbon have to come back out of the atmosphere over the next 70 years to have any hope of getting to 1.5ºC. How are we going to do it? The ocean holds about 50 times more carbon in the deep than what's in the atmosphere now. The ocean cycles most of the planet's free carbon. If we were to disappear tomorrow, the ocean would over the next 100,000, 200,000 years would recycle all this carbon pollution we have created. We don't have that kind of time, so we look at how can we accelerate, enhance and mimic ocean pathways for carbon removal. There's a few big categories: giant kelp, macro algae, rapid photo synthesizer, doesn't require land or fertilizer, captures carbon, many ways that you can store that carbon.
Brad Ack
Micro algae, also a rapid photo synthesizer that has unlimited potential to be able to move carbon and already does move a massive amount of carbon in the system. To more engineering methods: alkalinity enhancement, adding alkalinity to ocean water to restore the pH that's been lowered by acidification, also has a knock on effect of removing carbon. Direct ocean capture, which is essentially like direct air capture but capturing carbon out of seawater itself. And then lastly, what everybody is aware of and knows about as blue carbon ecosystems. Those are the big five domains of ocean based carbon removal. We're trying to accelerate research with partners like Cambridge on all five of those areas. And within each five, there are many technology pathways, we need much greater urgency to this effort. Here we are at COP, and nobody in the negotiation room is talking about how countries are going to deliver that 100 to 1000 gigatons of carbon. They're not talking about it, even though it's in the science. It's not on the agenda. So we need to all collectively get it on the agenda. There's only two ways to solve this problem. We need both of them reduce and remove, and we're falling far short on removal. If you want to learn more about some of these technology pathways, please visit oceanvisions.org/roadmaps and you will find a wealth of information there about all of the different research efforts underway and how you can get involved and help. Thank you!
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Saleem has been involved in the negotiations here since day 1 so is well placed to discuss the function and dysfunction of the COP process whilst keeping in mind that this is the only forum in the world where poorer vulnerable nations have a seat at the table, even if, as he says, they are not listened to.
All this must change, and fast if we are going to survive the onslaught of accelerating extreme climate impacts like fires, floods, and droughts.
Here at the COP, in the wake of incredible destructive flooding that took lives and destroyed heritage, the nation of Pakistan offers this portentous warning: “What happened in Pakistan won’t stay in Pakistan
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Professor Hayhoe is a Canadian climate scientist and communicator at the Nature Conservancy and Texas Tech University in the United States.
In this episode, recorded at COP27, we discuss the shifting momentum away from 1.5ºC as a boundary for climate heating, as well as the new arrival of Loss & Damage into the negotiations.
Is the public becoming too cynical and are we all, on the outside, powerless to have any impact? Katharine gives her take on all these issues.
In this ClimateGenn episode, I speak with Professor Jason Box about his recent research that identifies the amount of Greenland’s ice sheet that is committed to melting in the coming decades.
Faster Than Forecast Youtube: youtube.com/channel/UCYrUIJmrPnswv-giyx6JOHA
This so-called Zombie Ice is not included in the mainstream models, and when added to other sources such as glaciers and even the Sleeping Giant, Antarctica, then sea level rises will far exceed current forecasts.
You can find out more on Jason’s dedicated Faster Than Forecast Youtube Channel that I have linked to in the text.
Next week I will be reporting from COP27 in Egypt. It is widely assumed that the conference can deliver nothing in the way of meaningful change in global emissions. Many are shunning the conference and it is easy to see why.
It is worth stating that for billions of people in the Global South, the COP is the only forum they have to make a case for climate justice and seek help as they try to adapt to the catastrophic impacts they are facing today because of our continued sustained burning of coal, oil, and gas.
On the flip side, many global south communities are pushing forward with adaptation strategies and becoming as resilient as possible. As climate chaos spreads, we will need their expertise in order to respond to climate extremes that are now arriving in the Global North.
Thanks for listening.
As COP27 gets underway, our planet is sending a distress signal.
The latest State of the Global Climate report is a chronicle of climate chaos.
As the World Meteorological Organization shows so clearly, change is happening with catastrophic speed -- devastating lives and livelihoods on every continent.
The last eight years have been the warmest on record, making every heatwave more intense and life-threatening, especially for vulnerable populations.
Sea levels are rising at twice the speed of the 1990s - posing an existential threat for low-lying island states, and threatening billions of people in coastal regions.
Glacier melt records are themselves melting away - jeopardising water security for whole continents.
People and communities everywhere must be protected from the immediate and ever-growing risks of the climate emergency. That is why we are pushing so hard for universal early warning systems within five years.
We must answer the planet’s distress signal with action -- ambitious, credible climate action.
#COP27 must be the place – and now must be the time.
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By protecting and restoring ocean ecosystems we can start to create resilience in an area we know is in decline but yet we know so little about.
We have much of the technology and we have the intelligence but we still lack the political will and the investment to protect the world's fast-declining marine ecosystems that our lives are codependent up on.
In the next pre-COP episode I am also speaking with Professor Jason Box to highlight his new work around the Zombie ice on Greenlands ice sheet that is already committed to rising global sea levels this century and is not included in any of the climate models that we depend on for policymaking.
I’ll be catching up with both Nathalie and Jason among many others during week 2 at COP27 in Sharm El-Sheikh. This is being dubbed the African COP to draw attention to the worlds most vulnerable societies in the global south.
We are striving too for a global loss and damage fund that even you and I may be in need of, in the rapidly advancing onset of extreme climate impacts.
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The visual impact of the soup hitting the van Gogh painting was viscerally shocking to many, including myself. On reflection it reminded me of when the painter Francis Bacon was asked what he would save in a burning house if the choice was between a Rembrandt self-portrait and cat. Without hesitation Bacon said the cat, emphasising the value of life over art.
With that in mind, the Living Planet Report, shows that animal populations have declined by 70% since 1970. This is mass extinction territory and it is the world that these protestors are trying to draw the wider publics attention to.
Regardless of what we think of their action, the post war boomer generation and my own that have succeeded it, have partaken in this destruction both of the complex web of life on Earth and also the dreams and aspirations of the next and every successive generation.
In this ClimateGenn episode, recorded a few weeks ago with, author, philosopher and former XR spokesperson, Professor Rupert Read, and his colleague 'Systems and culture change strategist’ Paddy Loughton, we discuss urgent need for a mobilisation of the moderate masses in what they define as a Moderate Flank.
Social tipping points occur when enough when the force of change can no longer be held back. But what does a Moderate Flank actually look like?
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We discuss the absence of global leadership in the fight to hold temperature rise to within the boundaries that humanity has thrived for the last 11 thousand years. The rate of change means that the next 100 years, let alone the next ten thousand, really require global leadership and collective action from everyone on Earth who has the ability and agency to act.
In the next episode, I speak with former XR spokesman, author, and philosopher, Professor Rupert Read, and Systems and culture change strategist, Paddy Loughman, who have been working towards establishing a new inclusive cross-societal paradigm of action to tackle climate breakdown, that they call the Moderate Flank.
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We discuss how the programme evolved from a need to respond to worsening climatic conditions, into a solid certification programme to help communicate the measured results of producers who take sustainability seriously.
João also discusses how the programme consciously developed a knowledge-sharing network to accelerate the uptake of best practices.
Some of these best practices include the use of regenerative farming which, in a drought-prone region like Alentejo, is showing very positive results. The difference here, as João says, is between trying to survive in a desert, or, thriving in a garden of Eden. Either way, viticulture at higher temperatures has to mean working with nature, as Professor Kimberly Nicholas has said earlier in the series.
The last point, as Dr Gregory Jones mentioned earlier, is about finding ways to expand these best practices beyond the regional level to the national and international levels.
This is where the wine producers and journalists and communicators interface to tell those stories. It seems to me that it is up to all of us to try and decode what is behind the certification labels.
We do this best by telling the stories of contemporary viticulture that respects nature, promotes stewardship of the land, and ultimately inspires trust in consumers that the wine industry is on a sustainable pathway.
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As the Centre for Climate Repair forges ahead with its 3 R’s strategy of reducing emissions, removing carbon from the atmosphere and repairing essential climate systems such as the Arctic, Shaun has high hopes for large-scale ocean sequestration but does not stop short of stating the need for urgent research into engineering methods for reflecting sunlight away from the Earth.
These are controversial proposals for many people and yet the climate problem keeps getting worse, with many governments only making tiny incremental commitments that maintain the status quo of a fossil fuel-driven economy and society.
The truth is, as Professor Kevin Anderson has stated, that if we rely on the current ambition our political leaders, we really “are going to hell in a handcart”.
I am interested to hear feedback from listeners and gauge your thoughts on these kinds of proposals.
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In this episode, I am speaking with Luis Patrão, director of enology and viticulture at Coelheiros, a stunning 800-hectare, historic estate, north of Evora, in the centre of Alentejo.
When I visited the estate, Luis gave me a guided tour to demonstrate how the 600+ hectare cork oak forest, 50 hectares of vines, and the 40-hectare walnut orchard are being transformed into a regenerated resilient, and balanced ecosystem that is simply glorious.
It wasn’t always like this. The estate had more of a focus on hunting, running all the way back to 1467. It was only at the end of the last century, that Coelheiros started to be transformed into what is now a buzz of biodiversity.
Luis explains how their biggest challenge has been small birds and bugs, that eat everything from the plants themselves to the fruit they produce.
Wetland restoration and ending centuries of hunting have seen the return of birds of prey such as eagles and falcons. These in return have driven away the small birds that eat the fruit, and the introduction of bats is proving effective at balancing the bug population.
Luis also talks about the increased use of grapes more suited to the climate. Alicant Bouschet is again a favourite for this purpose, where the berries have proven to be more resilient to heatwaves, as well as having a later ripening period.
A feature of this conversation is that Luis talks about the positive impact this process of ‘working with nature’ has had on the wine quality, which he describes as being “purer and with greater richness on the palate”.
This kind of readiness for the new cycles of hotter and more intense climatic conditions mean that Coelheiros is one of the leaders in Alentejo in starting out on the pilgrimage towards a truly sustainable viticulture.
Although climate models indicate this as low-risk, to date the models have been poor anticipators of the speed of localised climate changes. Levke gives an insightful and sincere perspective on the importance of the AMOC as a critical piece of the climate system jigsaw.
In the next episode, we stay in the oceans and speak with Dr Shaun Fitzgerald, Director of the Centre for Climate Repair in Cambridge, about the collaborative effort they are involved with to develop kelp seaweed for both carbon sequestration and the benefit of marine ecosystems and more.
Subscribers via Patreon can also access another episode with Professor Bill McGuire discussing his new book Hothouse Earth and, very shortly, a new interview from my visit to the Monaco Scientific Centre to interview Dr Nathalie Hilmi about the centre's work in ocean research and conservation with corals and whales among other marine ecosystems on the agenda.
Please do also check out the Sustainability in Alentejo wine series that I have been posting. The latest episode features an interview with Professor Kimberly Nicholas at the University of Lund about regenerative practices that underscore the critical importance of learning to work with nature rather than against nature.
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Kimberly is originally from Sonoma in California’s wine country and is currently based in Sweden at the University of Lund. She has also recently published a book titled ‘Under The Sky We Make’ highlighting the agency available to all of us to contribute toward a better world. Kimberly also produces a monthly advice column called We Can Fix It sharing thoughts and engaging in broader discussion on this complex subject.
With the lens focussed primarily on wine, we look at the benefits of using a wider range of grape varieties, as well as the growing trend towards regenerative agriculture, to restore soil carbon and build resilience.
To give some context to why there is an emphasis on words like urgency, catastrophe, and resilience, is because the Intergovernmental Panel On Climate Change (IPCC), a scientist-led division of the United Nations, have in 2022 stated that we need to reduce our emissions in developed nations by 10-12% per year, in order to have a 50% chance of holding warming from rising above 1.5ºC global mean average.
Reducing emissions this fast is a colossal task and is why so many people now agree we are in a climate emergency. Action must start now across our society if we are going to stand a chance of succeeding in sustaining a liveable climate.
The world of wine may only be a tiny percentage of global agriculture but it is also a very sensitive crop and widely regarded as a cultural and luxury product. It is also greatly exposed to the risks of a changing climate and is widely seen as a leader in taking the actions required to transition towards true sustainability.
In this 5th episode of sustainability in our Alentejo Wine series, I'm speaking with JAL Roquette, CEO and chairman of the Asheboro group about the company's transformation to organic and resilient.
Herdade do Esporão is one of the most famous brand names in Portuguese wine and especially in Ireland, Tasia Zhao has played a leading role in driving the company's move towards organic viticulture.
During my visit, I saw huge amounts of effort going into researching indigenous varieties for adaptability to the new climate conditions, which are extreme today but will rapidly become normal tomorrow.
The worsening risks we face mean climate interventions to cool the planet are back in discussion in the corridors of power. We discuss the hold-ups and the necessity for research that could give all of us a clear idea as to whether such schemes should be deployed or not.
We also discuss how engaging the talents of global south scientists beyond the current superficial level could be a game changer in advancing our ability to respond, and intervene, in order to counter the impacts of warming we are seeing accelerating all around us.
Quotes:
“The media is telling us the math doesn’t add up and the situation is getting a little bit frightening.”
On climate interventions: “Looking at the system where it is and the dangers to people… and the dangers to natural systems, ecology and biodiversity, we are now seeing there is more openness in those communities who were extremely opposed to this than they were in the past… and that’s new!"
Excerpts from the interview with Kelly Wanser, Exec Director of SilverLining Institute
During my trip across Alentejo, it was a pleasure to visit the cooperative Adega de Borba. Winemaking in and around Borba has a long pedigree and is even mentioned in ‘Murray’s handbook to Travels in Portugal’, published in 1864, with reference to ‘A considerable quantity of wine is produced at Borba..’
And so it is to this day with Borba producing around 10 million bottles per year.
The co-op is also renowned for its quality with their very popular Adega de Borba Reserva being a top seller with its iconic label printed on cork.
During my visit, I was given a tour of the winery and the cellars by Helena Ferreira, the director in charge of production and quality control. Helena has been implementing an impressive suite of sustainability protocols right across the organisation.
These include training the 300 growers, covering over 2200 hectares of vineyards, to improving energy, water, and waste management. All of this work is to ensure that the one thousand families who rely on Adega de Borba for their living, have confidence that they will be producing wine there in the years and decades yet to come.
In this ClimateGenn episode we are discussing the risk of maladaptation that can seriously undermine our efforts to tackle the climate challenges we know are coming towards us. Dr Lisa Schipper is an Environmental Social Science Research Fellow at the Environmental Change Institute at the University of Oxford whose work focuses on adaptation to climate change in developing countries, looking at factors that include gender, religion and culture, to understand what drives vulnerability.
As vulnerability and suffering increase, it is critical we are able to engage as many people as possible to help shape the solutions that benefit us all and avoid critical errors that can have long lasting detrimental effects.
In the next episode I am speaking Kelly Wanser from the Silver Lining Institute in Washington about there work in trying to counter near term Earth system destabilisation by a combination of advanced super computer situations and interventions that might include marine cloud brightening.
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In this Alentejo Wines episode, I am speaking to Iain Richardson, from the wine estate, Herdade do Mouchão.
Mouchão is a great example of an integrated estate in Alentejo where different flora and fauna are interwoven to create the whole.
The Sobreiro, or cork oak trees, are an integral part of the history of this region and yet, as Iain tells us, climate is one of the drivers that is causing a substantial die-off against which he and his team are fighting.
For reference, the Arroba, mentioned in this recording is actually a measure used for weighing cork, equivalent to 15 kilograms.
The story of Mouchão is one that really marries the past with the present in terms of identifying the moment where history and tradition are faced with the need for non-linear responses in order to achieve sustainability.
It is the story that really connects the glass of wine, or jug of olive oil, to the seemingly infinite physical and chemical interactions within the biosphere.
It is also a great human challenge to adapt to these changes and to regenerate our soils, build resilience and learn to live in a different world.
This feeds back into the importance of what programmes like WASP can achieve when they provide the framework for measuring change and disseminating knowledge.
In this ClimateGenn episode, I speak with Lieutenant General Norman Seip, the President of the American Security Project, about the urgency for the US Senate to stop playing dice with the global climate and vote through policy that will steer America back on course to being a nation worthy of respect.
Ever since President George Bush Senior declared the American Way of Life is not up for negotiation, the United States has stood in the way of global efforts to limit the impacts of climate destruction.
We are now unnecessarily gambling our collective futures away because US politicians put wealth and ideology above the endless warnings of climate scientists, ecologist, among many others now screaming for change to avert disaster.
It is late in the day and we are all now at risk from business as usual policy and investment that prolongs the use of fossil fuels. Changing now could avert some suffering and, as we discuss here, the United States must grow up and face its responsibility as the world largest emitter.
Nick Breeze, Dr Greg V Jones
In the second episode of the Alentejo climate and sustainability series, I'm speaking with winemaker and climate scientist Dr. Greg Jones, who has co-authored climate and wine research papers looking at the vulnerability of certain regions to climate change. One, in particular, that is relevant to this series titled 'Climate Change & Global Wine Quality', published in 2005 states, "Other regions currently with warmer growing seasons, i.e. southern Portugal may become too warm for the existing varieties grown there and hot climate maturity regions may become too warm to produce high-quality wines of any type."
A couple of factors that are important in responding to this deduction are as follows. Mitigation is still essential. Every one of us, every business, every wine business, must play a part in the decarbonisation of human systems. Doing so is a collective responsibility that runs all the way through the wine business, from the vineyards, to how wine is communicated and consumed. But this alone is not enough wine producers have to go further in building resilience, regenerating soils, and ecosystems. This is as much about stewardship as it is about survival.
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the IPCC recently released a report that states adaptation is critical, because climate impacts due to human-caused global warming, are now unavoidable. Here, Dr. Jones outlines some of the impacts we can expect in regions such as Alentejo, which are among the world's most vulnerable to heat increases and drought conditions. He also gives us his view on why regional certification programs such as the Wines of Alentejo Sustainability Programme play a crucial role in the sharing of knowledge, as well as providing the framework by which actions and progress can be measured. This second episode represents a broader view before we zoom in and meet the producers in Alentejo and hear their fascinating stories about the actions they are taking to boost resilience and protect the quality and reputation of the region.
FossilFreeLondon.org - In this ClimateGenn episode I speak with Fossil Free London activist Nuri Syed Corser about their focussed activism targeting the biggest polluters operating in the UK’s capital.
At a time when the UK is reeling from extreme heatwaves, the government are holding back on renewable energy projects and backing fossil fuel investments that will please their backers and make the climate problem much, much worse. They are also using the Russian invasion of Ukraine as an excuse to increase coal, oil and gas extraction across the British Isles.
Activist groups like Fossil Free London help to highlight who the polluters are and bring public attention to their careless and destructive activities. As has been said in previous interviews, the activists and civil society groups are more inline with what the science tells us we need to do than the policymakers entrusted to protect us. This has to stop.
Thanks for listening to Climate Genn. In the next episode I am speaking with a retired US General Norman Seip who is now President of the American Security Project and who agrees with me that as much as Climate Change is a US National Security Threat, US climate policy is itself a security threat to the rest of the world.
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Thanks.
As Part of the Climate Genn podcast, I am publishing concurrently with my normal interviews, a series within a series every week for the next 8 weeks called Sustainability & Wine in Alentejo, Portugal’s largest and most climate vulnerable region. This series is part of a larger project commissioned by the Wines of Alentejo Sustainability Programme with whom I have been collaborating for the past year.
Alentejo Episodes to be released 1 per week for 8 weeks:
EP. 1 Sustainability & Wine in Alentejo An Introduction - Alentejo, a climate-vulnerable region
EP. 2 Dr Greg Jones - we need regional schemes that build into broader framework at a global level
EP. 3 Herdade do Mouchão, Iain Richardson - 600 mature cork oak trees a year lost, it was tragic!
EP. 4 Adega de Borba, Helena Ferriera - 1000 families depend on this business
EP. 5 Herdade do Esporão, João Roquette - Leaders In Portugal
EP. 6 Professor Kimberly Nicholas, Working With Nature
EP. 7 Herdade de Coelheiros, Luis Patrão - If we don’t adapt we are finished
EP. 8 Wines of Alentejo Sustainability Programme (WASP) João Barroso
In this ClimateGenn episode I am speaking to climate psychologist and Deputy Director and theme lead for the Centre for Climate Change and Social Transformation (CAST Centre) Dr Stuart Capstick from Cardiff University about why scientists who research aspects of climate change are deciding to protest in public, and in some cases getting arrested.
We discuss the role of scientists in society as a group that have for many years played a key role in informing policy - but what happens when policymakers are not listening and the consequences mean risking the lives and well beings of citizens, which of course, includes their own family and friends.
Stuart is a researcher looking at many aspects of civil disobedience and the publics response to it and has a lot to say that implies to me that more and more people with positions of authority are saying that is enough is enough - the risks to our own existence are now too high.
In the next episode I speak with Nuri Syed Corser from Fossil Free London, a group of activists specifically targeting the fossil fuel industry, their backers and enablers, by, for example, disrupting shareholder events and other tactics.
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Find out more about debtforclimate.org
In this ClimateGenn episode, I am speaking with Sunny Morgan in South Africa about the Debt for Climate Campaign that is calling for the global north to cancel the debts of the global south, which are both crippling the economies in developing nations and financing huge fossil fuel projects that we desperately need to get rid of.
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The Living Earth Movement asks us all to look at how we can reshape humanity to act as part of the ecosphere and not against it. A major part of John’s mission is to call on the US and China to stop competing and start working together as leaders in the change we need to end the destruction of our planet.
John implores all of us as individuals to think about the way we live and not take anything for granted, especially now that we are committed to devastating impacts from the ecological destruction we are bringing on ourselves.
The Living Earth Movement (https://livingearthmovement.eco) was founded in February, this year at the same time that John turned 97 years old, clearly demonstrating that it is never too late to take action to strive for a better world for all ecology.
Action and activism are hot topics at the moment and in the next episode I am speaking Sunny Morgan in South Africa about a new campaign called Cancel The Debt - a call from thousands of activists in the global south demanding the global north cancel the very debts that are preventing them rising out of poverty and accelerating a green transition.
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Kevin Anderson quotes:
“Senior academics are the new climate sceptics in my view!”
“Natural gas - Methane is a transition fuel… to 4ºC”
“We all paint a picture that fits with our world view but as we reassess that world view repeatedly, eventually it doesn’t sit with our world view.”
“It is disturbing and interesting in the law that we will protect things that are causing incredible damage and we will prosecute things that are trying to stop that incredible damage being caused.”
“Particularly academics, we are paid to be honest and direct about our research and we will sweeten the pill, hugely sweeten the pill in public and I think that is deeply arrogant, of often very decent people, fast we think the public can’t deal with it”
“The policymakers are simply not up to the job.”
In this ClimateGenn episode, I am introducing Alentejo in Southern Portugal, declared in 2005 as one of the most climate-vulnerable wine regions in the world. The Alentejo region has been seeing temperatures rise and drought conditions intensify as rain patterns become more erratic and extreme.
In June I will be releasing a series of 9 recordings from my visit and interviews with producers and members of the Wines of Alentejo Sustainability Programme, looking at how they are responding to the emergent climate challenges.
In the next ClimateGenn episode out this week, I am speaking with Professor Kevin Anderson about his recent research paper on phasing out fossil fuels to stay within the 1.5ºC obligation that governments set in Paris in 2015. This is a detailed conversation where Kevin talks about our current predicament being ‘The worst of both worlds with dire consequences and less carbon budget available to transition to clean energy’.
What follows is the typescript of my overall response to the presentation given in London by the Wines of Alentejo producers.
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Sir David makes it very clear that nobody will escape these impacts as the climate emergency worsens and what we are seeing in India continues to spread around the world.
Sir David emphasises the need for solidarity and pulling together to meet the challenges at the global level. He also highlights that wealthier countries must pay-up on adaptation costs for vulnerable and poorer nations.
As someone with first hand experience of the climate negotiations, Sir David points the finger at the United States for its lack of global leadership on appropriate climate action at the political level.
Activism around the world is stepping up as people realise the failures of governments to take appropriate action. Even the UN Secretary General is calling out the failures of world leaders, declaring that activists are rational actors compared to those entrusted with power.
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In this ClimateGenn episode I speak with Dr Delton Chen, the originator of the ‘Chen Paper’ concept made famous by Kim Stanley Robinson in his book, Ministry For The Future.
Delton is an engineer by training but has take almost a decade out to study economics to see if his Carbon Reward Coin concept, the idea of a reward for mitigating carbon, could provide the missing link needed to rebalance the human economy.
The Global Reward Coin would be backed by central banks around the world in order to provide stability and a mechanism to account for what he calls, The Living Systems Economy.
By making a comparative analysis of this concept with other economic proposals, Delton asserts that de-growth and circular economy proposals are inadequate to solve the climate emergency when placed in the context of the current paradigm of human civilisation.
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CORRECTION BY Paul to the content: "The breakdown is this:
70% of all land is habitable (non-Antarctica icy expanses etc).
50% of total habitable land is used for agriculture and 80% of that is used for animal agriculture. So 40% of all habitable land is used for livestock."
Paul talks about the changes that we can and should make in order to build resilience and make the food system actually work for all.
Emerging science is showing that we are now vulnerable to multiple extreme events in bread baskets around the world happening at the same time.
With 10% of the world’s population already struggling to feed itself, is now the time for us all to take the action required causing a social tipping point that, for a change, moves in our favour?
Thanks for listening to ClimateGenn. In the next episode, I speak with Dr Delton Chen. Dr Chen is the creator of the Global Carbon Reward coin, a concept made famous in Kim Stanley Robinson’s climate fiction novel, Ministry For The Future.
Through the creation of the Living Systems Economy, Chen believes he has a winning formula to finance the restoration of the biosphere, including tackling ecological breakdown and reducing atmospheric carbon.
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The risks posed to society from extreme politics on the right and the left have been rising in recent years. Even in in the last week or so, a cache of information was leaked via the Anonymous hacking group linking Putin’s regime to the financing of far right-wing groups across Europe.
More evidence of the rise in far right and fascist groups is seen in places like the UK, France, Italy, or Hungary, where political ground can become an objective.
Sam and Alex’s work aims to be a pragmatic guide to identify these tendencies and emerging ideas in order to be able to stop them from rising into dominant movements, which as they evidence in the book, never deliver on the grand promises they make.
They also provide a long history of how the far right have developed relationships to nature that recur in history and are also echoed today in political narratives around climate denialism and delays in ridding ourselves of the fossil fuel era that is destroying the world as we know it.
Thank you for listening to the ClimateGenn series. In the next episode I am speaking with Dr Paul Behrens on the risks of food system shocks arising from the Ukraine crisis and how this is a signal of how vulnerable our overall food system is in a worsening climate and ecological crisis.
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We also discuss IPCC forecasts, political failure, and how change is possible but it requires a huge mobilisation of resources, coupled with public and political participation and leadership of the Zelensky variety.
The clock is ticking, parts of the system are tipping, whether you call it: code-red, an emergency, or blah blah blah, no one is immune from the cascade of climate impacts that we will face if we continue to do nothing to avert the growing threat of climate change this decade and into the future.
Thanks for listening to ClimateGenn, especially at a time when there is so much violence and the threat of escalation of war.
The pain that this is causing so many is inextricably linked to corruption and fossil fuels that extend well beyond Putin’s regime. I would very much like to express solidarity with the Ukrainian people, as well as with Russians who are standing up to the regime.
https://www.breakthroughonline.org.au/
http://www.climatecodered.org
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Sir Tim sees the now as a moment of great revolution that is emerging from what he calls the new green enlightenment. With world leaders of low-calibre and backward thinking, it is right to ask from whence will these great game-changers emerge?
If you have just got your head around exponential climate change then why not have a go at exponential biosphere healing? With 20th century style aggression erupting in Europe, it will take a leap of great faith and hope to keep the lantern burning in these dark dystopian times.
Some key quotes:
i. “I am at a real sea change with Eden."ii. “A very rapid reappraisal is necessary of the whole world of science, of scientific research, the way it is funded…”
iii. “Our disrespect for biology has led to many of the pickles we are now in.”iv. “I think we are living at a time of great revolution… in twenty years time we will be looking at this as the start of a new green enlightenment.”
v. “I know many many top business people who feel they would not like to do anything other than have a shower after they have been with many bankers!”vi. “I have met very few leaders who are champions of citizenship. They see leadership as being about being decisive!”
Vii. “I see us a shop window on a future that is still ours to make!”
Thank you for listening to ClimateGenn where we explore the reality of what to do, and how to come to terms with such a severely changing world. You can support this work via patreon.com/genncc or by subscribing on any major podcast channel and Youtube. Please also consider sharing any episodes of interest.
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Minnie’s work looks at how the dynamics between civic groups and governing bodies can determine very different outcomes.
Distrust of government by those most impacted communities meant they worked hard and fast to repair the damage to the same standards experienced before Katrina hit.
A better-informed approach would have looked at what was necessary to protect them against future impacts that the science tells us are increasing in power and frequency.
Minnie’s work gives us insight into how civic groups and communities are likely to become more resilient based on the characteristics and efficacy of regional government.
In his book, ‘The Best of Times, The Worst of Times’ Paul addresses population, presenting both a pessimistic potential outcome, and also a more hopeful outcome based on a set of choices that we, especially those of us in wealthier high emitting countries, can make to improve the chances for a better future.
One big barrier to a better future is the growing narrative that stokes fears about migration. The propagating of these myths falls under the title of econativism, a term that Paul both defines and discusses in some detail.
Population and migration are critical and controversial issues and when placed in the context of continually rising emissions and consequent impacts, they stress the need for reflection on how we value our own life and the lives of all those around us.
In this Climate Genn episode, I am speaking to Professor Katharine Hayhoe about how her recent book ‘Saving Us’ addresses issues relating to personal agency.
2022 has advanced out of the gate with threats of war, massive volcanic eruptions, economic and political upheavals, conspiracy theories, and the worsening accelerating degradation of the biosphere upon which we are all entirely reliant.
Awareness is growing and people from all walks of life are awakening to the need for emergency action. It now feels like we are simply being held back by an adherence by the few to the value systems and aspirations of the last century.
Thank you for listening to ClimateGenn, we have a programme of interviews for this year looking at the multi-faceted problem of rebalancing life in the biosphere.
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Addressing climate threats
With global agriculture across the world at high risk from rising temperatures and associated impacts, Ye’s team are proposing increasing the Earth’s reflectivity in order to reduce the temperature within the biosphere.
In this interview we go into some detail about how it works, resource requirements, where it would be deployed and the pathway to scaling up.
Social response is critical
Ye also highlights the need for more understanding of psychology in order to be able to align the growing numbers of people around the world who are realising that our future is in a perilous state.
By bringing people together, putting our wellbeing and safety before profit and extractive endeavours, only then do we really stand a chance of seeing these grand ideas tested and eventually deployed.
So much to lose, all to play for
A special thank you this week to Marion Troia who sent in a transcript of my last interview with Dr Tero Mustenon. This is interview received terrific feedback and resonated with a great many people, not least myself, so I am really grateful for this support.
Thank you to all my new Patrons who are supporting this series and to everyone for listening, commenting and getting in touch.
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Tero works with indigenous peoples inside the Arctic Circle and beyond, utilising what is called Traditional Knowledge Systems that include the linguistic, cultural and natural environments that are complex and holistic.
These ancient ways of understanding the world also hold the key to solving many of our systemic problems and yet they are being extinguished, along with the broad swathe of life on Earth.
This is all a result of centuries of extraction and consumption, that underpin our contemporary experience of living in developed nations.
Despite Tero’s despairing message, he also suggests a pathway to planetary repair through rewinding and by deepening our custodial relationship with nature.
Thank you for listening. Please do subscribe if you want to stay up-to-date. You can also support ClimateGenn via Patreon and please do leave feedback which I am always interested to receive.
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Tom has switched hats from journalist to fiction writer, possessing a depth of insight into how both disciplines interact with the public and our experience of reality?
The Days To Come is a thriller with a climate change theme that touches on many of the complex factors that can either accelerate or undermine our progress in tackling the climate crisis.
In this interview, we discuss how the book intersects with contemporary reality and also how fiction and journalism contribute to shaping the narrative we internalise that helps us envision the future.
In the next episode, I am speaking with indigenous Sámi scholar Dr Tero Mustonen, who is based in Finnish Arctic, about the climate changes that threaten his communities existence and by extension, our own.
We will also discuss what we can do to try and reverse the extreme nature of change in these critical and vulnerable regions of the world.
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Some of these are also referred to as negative emissions technologies, or ‘nets’ and are widely included in national emissions reduction plans despite none being proven at scale today.
We discuss the viability of various proposed techniques including tree planting, bioenergy capture and storage as well as direct air capture and ocean proposals including farming kelp and the use of diatoms for large-scale sequestration.
In the last segment we discuss the risks posed by Arctic methane releases and two proposed techniques for dealing with a potential methane emergency, whereby multiple billions of tonnes of the potent greenhouse gas are released at once.
These are controversial proposals despite policymakers assuming they will work in the future. The danger of these suppositions is compounded by the fact that many research projects are embryonic and underfunded.
Thank you for listening. In the next episode I speak with author Professor Tom Rosenstiel about his new political thriller, The Days To Come. In this interview we discuss fiction writing and journalism an d how these both intersect with reality to shape our world.
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Thanks for listening.
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Despite this, in Scotland, we see a Climate Citizens Assembly that is working with experts to come up with ideas for achieving a lower carbon, cleaner and fairer society.
In this episode, I am speaking with the Secretariat of the Scottish Climate Assembly, Susie Townend. Susie has overseen the creation of the first report to the Scottish Parliament guided by experts but very much created by ordinary folks from across the country.
The Scottish Parliament is reviewing the report submitted by the assembly and will respond with feedback by the end of this year.
Given the Scottish governments' positive signals given during COP26 in Glasgow, on their commitment to Loss and Damage funding for vulnerable nations, there is some confidence that they are taking the assembly’s input seriously.
This kind of informed approach, places empathy, justice and inclusion at the heart the policymaking process. It also acknowledges that involving citizens increases momentum towards shaping a world we actually want to live in.
Thank you for listening. This whole project is now under the name of ClimateGenn and the archive of work can be seen at genn.cc. You can support this work via patreon.com/genncc - you can also subscribe on Youtube and all of the main podcast & social media channels.


