Lawrence's channel: youtube.com/LawrenceAnton
Brother Markus
Today I am joined by @LawrenceAnton to review a discussion he had on Channel 4 about Antinatalism. Original Channel 4 Video: youtube.com/watch?v=7wYOuFVEaXs
Lawrence's channel: youtube.com/LawrenceAnton
Lawrence's channel: youtube.com/LawrenceAnton
updated 3 years ago
Lawrence's channel: youtube.com/LawrenceAnton
Citing a self-published e-book by a non-Philosopher? What does he consider a Philosopher? What are the standards and criteria for what is relevan? The YouTube Philosophers Uprising lol Link to my live stream reaction to @WackyConundrum: youtube.com/live/-7j4FaPO1RQ
Link to his original video here: youtu.be/qTi6tB2EAZA
References:
- The Original Antinatalist Advocacy video - youtube.com/watch?v=-g4_air6SS0&t=3378s
- My first reaction video: youtu.be/SIhNMEZAOvU
- My second reaction video with Antinatalists on @DO-NOT-WATCH's channel asking what others thought: youtu.be/JTg62C53Gbs
- William MacAskill and changing the identities of people. - 80000hours.org/podcast/episodes/will-macaskill-paralysis-and-hinge-of-history
- "AAP Ep. 10 - Criticisms of Antinatalist Advocacy with Lenny [co-host of @veganvoidcast Podcast] and @WackyConundrum": youtube.com/watch?v=UxhxMQOnTGc
- Comments made by Nomad of Omelas (@NomadOfOmelas):
youtube.com/watch?v=XkXYKaWSJog&lc=UgykHGAKV3cdP7KCDQx4AaABAg
- Lawrence Anton deleted his commentary so I don't know fully what he said.
- "Should VEGANS Have KIDS? | Peter Singer": youtube.com/watch?v=ypu5Z8eeVag
Extra context: Antinatalist Advocacy is co-founded by Lawrence Anton & John Williams. This is a reply made by John Williams on the original Antinatalist Advocacy Podcast video when I had asked for clarification and I think offers some clarity for the overall conversation we had here.
My comment: "Maybe I'm just tired and misheard or misunderstood but did John say as long as it doesn't increase the overall amount of human births, Antinatalists donating to a sperm bank might not be such a bad thing to do and something for ANs to consider doing? 56 : 18"
John's Reply: "[John] Hi Mark, you heard correctly - with several BIG caveats!
One argument made against antinatalism is that, if all the compassionate people stop having children, then they won't be able to pass on the genes that may contribute to people being compassionate (this was part of the concern raised by Peter Singer in Episode 4 of our podcast). I believe that, IF it is true that compassion is partly inherited, IF it is true that antinatalists are more compassionate, and IF donating to sperm banks does not increase the amount of procreation occuring (but rather leading to people being created who are more compassionate than the alternative), then someone concerned about this would do better to donate to sperm banks than having their own children to pass on their compassionate genes. Just so you know, this not something that I (John) will personally be doing...
What are your thoughts on this argument?"-(Comment source: youtube.com/watch?v=-g4_air6SS0&lc=UgyRHSowrl-nlrsi-ZZ4AaABAg.A105gHLkiwUA10YIynGEqf)
My reply: "Thanks for the reply and clarification. My initial thoughts are that I don't consider this Antinatalism, it's a form of eugenics and it's a type of selective replacement Pronatalism or Natalism, in my opinion. If I have any further thoughts I will let you know though."
@WackyConundrum's unanswered question: "You say you won't be donating to a sperm bank. But if the prerequisites (the three conditions) were met, would you? Should you?"
Commentary/Reactions from others:
- Community Commentary Post by @efilism
http://youtube.com/post/UgkxYzuV2Ndbk0t6bi-GTHzEbNnGo-5hq4jC
- Hail the New Breed! ("Music") by @andrew_mcintosh
youtube.com/watch?v=khKsNw92anM
- "Do you think making sperm donations is compatible with the antinatalist position?" Reddit post by user 'LennyKing'. Interesting poll results and comments: reddit.com/r/antinatalism2/comments/1bl8tc5/do_you_think_making_sperm_donations_is_compatible
- My clip shown to the panel: youtube.com/watch?v=SIhNMEZAOvU
- The original Antinatalist Adcocacy Podcast video: youtube.com/watch?v=-g4_air6SS0&t=3378s
Daily Negativity has two additional channels:
- youtube.com/@pessimismchannel
- youtube.com/@DisciplinedPassion
facebook.com/groups/antinatalism), & @veganequilibrium7866
Segment clipped & mirrored with permission.
Original Full Video Link (including preceding conversation) can be found here: youtube.com/watch?v=3cAQQDxBiuk
Link to video: youtu.be/qTi6tB2EAZA
I've changed my mind that this was a good video. I clearly had issues with it in my reaction and those concerns still remain.
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Sparks by ChaΓ«l / chael_music soundcloud.com/chael_music
Creative Commons β Attribution 3.0 Unported β CC BY 3.0
Free Download / Stream: http://bit.ly/2CFJfGn
Music promoted by Audio Library β’ Sparks β ChaΓ«l (No Copyright Music) youtube.com/watch?v=XIoyEFrDRDo
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Link to the video being reviewed: youtube.com/watch?v=xCq97JP-eTM
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Sparks by ChaΓ«l / chael_music soundcloud.com/chael_music
Creative Commons β Attribution 3.0 Unported β CC BY 3.0
Free Download / Stream: http://bit.ly/2CFJfGn
Music promoted by Audio Library β’ Sparks β ChaΓ«l (No Copyright Music) youtube.com/watch?v=XIoyEFrDRDo
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Sparks by ChaΓ«l / chael_music soundcloud.com/chael_music
Creative Commons β Attribution 3.0 Unported β CC BY 3.0
Free Download / Stream: http://bit.ly/2CFJfGn
Music promoted by Audio Library β’ Sparks β ChaΓ«l (No Copyright Music) youtube.com/watch?v=XIoyEFrDRDo
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YouTube channels of the guests:
@glynos: youtube.com/glynos
Oldphan aka @anti-natalwolf4449: youtube.com/channel/UCZrRegIYlkF-x5Fc9RzgeNw (Current) | Twitter: twitter.com/AntinatalNews | youtube.com/user/ForeverWolfFilms (Old channel no longer up)
@LifeSucks: youtube.com/LifeSucks | Twitter: twitter.com/MattLifeSucks
@laithmalekreem6120: youtube.com/channel/UCHF4JgPjJ0EbTj1GWwcT2Fw
http://vhemt.org
twitter.com/lesuknight
Photo of Les by Heather Stallman
*Point of clarification, I used the term "omnicide" in this clip and I know of at least one "Red Button" supporter who objects to that term. For the context of this discussion, I was using it to mean _the cessation of all sentient life_. There seem to be multiple definitions out there but I was using this as a reference (merriam-webster.com/dictionary/omnicide). This was audio was clipped from a longer conversation I had on another channel here: youtube.com/watch?v=JWSbZblIsQA
More information on the badness of death:
- Death with Shelly Kagan - youtube.com/watch?v=p2J7wSuFRl8&list=PLEA18FAF1AD9047B0 (Part 16 & 17 but I highly recommend watching the whole series)
- Philosopher Travis Timmerman: Philosophy of Death - youtube.com/watch?v=jQ7G14I7s8g
- (Book) David Benatar - The Human Predicament - Chapter 5 - Death
- (Book) Travis Timmerman & Michael Cholbi - Exploring the Philosophy of Death and Dying: Classical and Contemporary Perspectives - Part 3
Antinatalist Outreach (@DO-NOT-WATCH)'s YouTube Channel: youtube.com/DONOTWATCHTHISCHANNEL
Link to the original discussion: youtube.com/watch?v=7jJuTFUuOWw
Today I'm joined by @LawrenceAnton who had a discussion on Antinatalism with Patricia Nonis (@THATVEGANLAWYER) & we review their discussion.
Link to the original discussion: youtube.com/watch?v=7jJuTFUuOWw
Today I'm joined by @LawrenceAnton who had a discussion on Anti-natalism with THAT VEGAN LAWYER (@THATVEGANLAWYER) & we review their discussion.
"Tim Stainton is currently Professor at the School of Social Work and Director of the Canadian Institute for Inclusion and Citizenship. ...He is author of numerous works on service and supports for people with intellectual disabilities, disability rights, individualized funding, history, ethics and theory. He is active in the disability rights and community living movements and has served as a board member of several advocacy organizations and participated in numerous government panels, tasks forces and reviews. He was a founding member of the International Association for the Scientific Study of Intellectual Disability (IASSID) Special Interest Research group on Ethics and Is a Fellow of IASSIDD." (socialwork.ubc.ca/profile/tim-stainton)
- BMC Medical Ethics Paper, Disability, vulnerability and assisted death: commentary on Tuffrey-Wijne, Curfs, Finlay and Hollins by Professor Tim Stainton: bmcmedethics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12910-019-0426-2
- Tim Stainton on Twitter: twitter.com/ProfTimSUBC
- "Dr. Dow serves as the Manager of Organizational and Spiritual Life with Christian Horizons, a nonprofit charitable organization working with people with intellectual disabilities in Canada and around the world. He completed his PhD in Theology through Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam in 2019 under the supervision of Hans Reinders and Thomas E. Reynolds." (keithdow.com)
- Keith Dow on Twitter: twitter.com/keidow
- My previous conversation with Bioethicist Udo Schuklenk & Sandra Dunham in favour of Bill C-7 can be found here: youtube.com/watch?v=sbNFHKV5xrg
#Ethics #Bioethics #Philosophyβ #MAiD
travistimmerman.com
philosophyofdeath.org
Follow IAPDD @PhilDeathDying on Twitter
Daily Negavity's YouTube Channel: youtube.com/channel/UCeLB2i4b40A1p4XZWwrkwtA
#Philosophy #Death
@LawrenceAnton's YouTube Channel: youtube.com/LawrenceAnton
ANI Website: antinatalisminternational.com
@dailynegativity5429's Channel: youtube.com/channel/UCeLB2i4b40A1p4XZWwrkwtA
@LifeSucks' Channel: youtube.com/LifeSucks
The Friendly Antinatalist YouTube channel: youtube.com/TheFriendlyAntinatalist
Some more historical context about the red button argument aka 'The benevolent world-exploder argument': en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_utilitarianism#The_benevolent_world-exploder
Related video by @efilism on an internet ideology that borrows this thought experiment: youtube.com/watch?v=CAFRhjvQ-J4
Some more historical context about the red button argument is 'The benevolent world-exploder argument': en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_utilitarianism#The_benevolent_world-exploder
Related video by @efilism on an internet ideology that borrows this thought experiment: youtube.com/watch?v=CAFRhjvQ-J4
On YouTube: youtube.com/channel/UCYVQxigPheIsBwFZF2GxqKg
Buzzsprout: http://voidwave.buzzsprout.com
Twitter: twitter.com/VoidChad
Amazon.ca link: amazon.ca/dp/B089S9W33X
Amazon.co.uk link: amazon.co.uk/dp/B089S9W33X
Description: "The Antinatalism Magazine is a magazine focused on the ethics of procreation. This is the fourth issue, and includes a big interview with Karim Akerma, as well as an article about Kurnig a doctor from the early 1900s, dubbed Β«the first modern antinatalistΒ». The magazine also includes a debate on the nature of antinatalism activism between Andrew McIntosh and Tim Oseckas. Thereβs information on Emil Cioranβs views on procreation and an interview with Emil Cioran expert Quinten Weeterings. Thereβs also a premiere of the first part of an upcoming antinatalism novel named Β«Staring Into The VoidΒ» by Francois Tremblay."
Source: stitcher.com/podcast/my-own-worst-enemy-lets-talk-about-mental-health/e/55429489
Amazon.ca link: amazon.ca/Antinatalism-Magazine-3-Andreas-MΓΆss/dp/B087638R9T
Description: "The Antinatalism Magazine is a magazine focused on the ethics of procreation. This is the third issue, and includes articles from ThΓ©ophile de Giraud, K. Kalvall and Katerina LochmanovΓ‘. The magazine includes a travel guide in Norway to Peter Wessel Zapffe related places written by Tim Oseckas, a antinatalism novel called Β«The Gag GiftΒ» from author Gregory Jahn, several interviews and a memory section for the founder of the magazine Jiwoon Hwang."
Guests include:
- Amanda 'Oldphan' Sukenick YouTube Channel(s):
youtube.com/user/ForeverWolfFilms (No longer active)
Anti-natal Wolf (@anti-natalwolf4449), youtube.com/@anti-natalwolf4449 (Newer channel)
Twitter: twitter.com/Oldphan & twitter.com/AntinatalNews
Facebook: facebook.com/profile.php?id=637180690
Instagram: instagram.com/oldphan
- Kirk Woller (Administrator of the Antinatalism Facebook group, see link below)
- Matt @LifeSucks YouTube Channel: youtube.com/channel/UCli91fEAsC8hZ7rexRzq9HQ
- 'Vegan Antinatalist' YouTube Channel: youtube.com/channel/UC04ZcPGGCpMABHuUHVhmaiA (No longer active)
Twitter: twitter.com/VAntinatalist (No longer active)
Antinatalist communities:
Antinatalism Facebook Group: facebook.com/groups/antinatalism
Antinatalism Reddit: reddit.com/r/antinatalism
The article being discussed at the start: npr.org/2019/12/13/787113927/a-father-his-daughter-and-the-choice-to-start-a-family-as-an-act-of-hope
Guests include:
- Dana Wells AKA The Friendly Antinatalist (@TheFriendlyAntinatalist) YouTube Channel: youtube.com/channel/UClToz0Fet4_B9YJb0TqYQNg
- Matt AKA Life Sucks (@LifeSucks)' YouTube Channel: youtube.com/channel/UCli91fEAsC8hZ7rexRzq9HQ
- Vegan Antinatalist YouTube Channel: youtube.com/channel/UC04ZcPGGCpMABHuUHVhmaiA (No longer active)
Twitter: twitter.com/VAntinatalist (No longer active)
- Ethicalogical (@Ethicalogical) YouTube Channel: youtube.com/channel/UCcDVCxnqu152eQeeMhxwxyQ
Twitter: twitter.com/ethicalogical
- Curb Your Optimism YouTube Channel: youtube.com/channel/UCPruPDQyuaPMFqLUzy9JyDQ (No longer active)
Twitter: twitter.com/callmecurby (No longer active)
- Kirk Woller (Administrator of the Antinatalism Facebook Group, see link below)
Antinatalist communities:
Antinatalism Facebook Group: facebook.com/groups/antinatalism
Antinatalism Reddit: reddit.com/r/antinatalism
Topics discussed:
- Public perception of Antinatalism being a "Death Cult"
- The Guardian's 14-Nov-2019 article on Antinatalism: theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/14/anti-natalists-childfree-population-climate-change
- Discussion on Negative Utilitarianism (NU), Deontology derived from NU, Kantian ethics
- Antinatalist Philosopher Julio Cabrera's views - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julio_Cabrera_(philosopher)
- Julio Cabrera's latest book: "Discomfort and Moral Impediment: The Human Situation, Radical Bioethics and Procreation" (cambridgescholars.com/discomfort-and-moral-impediment) Extract Available: cambridgescholars.com/download/sample/64957
There is a great review of the book here: https://ejournals.bc.edu/index.php/dianoia/article/view/11741/9771
- Julio Cabrera's "Minimal Ethical Articulation" (MEA)
- Critiques of David Benatar's asymmetry argument (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Benatar#Asymmetry_between_pain_and_pleasure) by Elizabeth Harman and Julio Cabrera
- Narrow person-affecting view, The Nonidentity Problem (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonidentity_problem)
Guests include:
- Dana Wells AKA The Friendly Antinatalist (@TheFriendlyAntinatalist) YouTube Channel: youtube.com/TheFriendlyAntinatalist
- Matt AKA @LifeSucks YouTube Channel: youtube.com/LifeSucks
- 'Vegan Antinatalist' YouTube Channel: youtube.com/channel/UC04ZcPGGCpMABHuUHVhmaiA (No Longer Active)
Twitter: twitter.com/VAntinatalist (No Longer Active)
- Ethicalogical (@Ethicalogical) YouTube Channel: youtube.com/Ethicalogical
Twitter: twitter.com/ethicalogical
- Curb Your Optimism YouTube Channel: youtube.com/channel/UCPruPDQyuaPMFqLUzy9JyDQ (No Longer Active)
Twitter: twitter.com/callmecurby (No Longer Active)
- Kirk Woller (Administrator of the Antinatalism Facebook group, see below for link.)
Anti-natalist communities:
Antinatalism Facebook Group: facebook.com/groups/antinatalism
Antinatalism Reddit: reddit.com/r/antinatalism