trinities 247 - Kegan Chandler on the term homoousios khanpadawan 2018-12-17 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-247-kegan-chandler-on-the-term-homoousios The famous church historian Eusebius tells us that at the famous 325 council at Nicea, it was the emperor Constantine who suggested using the word homoousios (variously translated as “consubstantial,” “same esssence,” “same substance”).Is this plausible? And if so, why would Constantine have done such a thing? What, if anything, in his own religious background would point him towards that term? What was Constantine’s theology, and how might he have understood it?In this episode Kegan Chandler answers these questions using the latest historical research. He argues that we can go beyond the now widely agreed point that homoousios was employed by this council because it was not then a popular or widely used term, and so it did not have any widely accepted meaning. This enabled the majority of bishops to use the term as a stick with which to drive out Arius and his party, who did not like the term, while various bishops chose to interpret it in various ways, depending on their theological proclivities (e.g. Marcellan neo-monarchianism or Eusebian subordinationism). Whatever the various anti-Arian bishops were thinking, here Chandler ventures an educated guess as to what Constantine was thinking… and it has something to do with Egypt!Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-247-kegan-chandler-on-the-term-homoousios The live-streamed version of this lecture. The God of Jesus in Light of Christian Dogma his blog Buried Deep The God of Jesus @Academia.edu Rufinus’s corruption of Origen’s On First Principles – Part 1 Rufinus’s corruption of Origen’s On First Principles – Part 2 podcast 30 – The Council of Nicea podcast 175 – Marcellus of Ancyra This week’s thinking music is “Again, Once Again” by fluffy.
trinities 381 - Mainstream Christian Theologies in the year 240 - What Trinitarian Apologists D… khanpadawan 2024-08-15 | Recommended video version: youtu.be/d9W_KjktIdk?si=1HRpTSMgKpEVA8IStrinities.org/blog/podcast-381-mainstream-christian-theologies-in-the-year-240-what-trinitarian-apologists-dont-know In videos like this one and this one, trinitarian apologists continue to push false narratives about the history of mainstream Christian theologies. In this historical presentation, focusing on passages from Tertullian, Origen, and Novatian, I explain the actual early history of mainstream Christian theologies. Each of these three authors is a logos theorist, and I explain how they think God and the Logos (aka “the second god”) differ. “Subordinationism” is a feature, not a bug of these theologies; it is how they stay monotheistic despite positing multiple “divine” beings–only one “god” is strictly speaking a god. Each writer implies that logos theory was in their day a minority view; it seems that logos theories were at first popular among the “elite” and were widely rejected by other Christians. Each of these writers describes Christians who disagree with their Logos speculations. Since Harnack historians have called these Dynamic Monarchians and Modalistic Monarchians. Using the stick figures first deployed here, I explain the differences between these three mainstream Christian theologies, and between each of them and the trinitarian theology that was demanded by the mainstream starting in 381. Finally, I take a stab out outlining the actual early history of Christian theologies, starting with Dynamic Monarchianism and ending with the hegemony of trinitarianism.Thanks to Brandon Duke for editing the video and to Mark Cain for expertly cleaning up the lecture audio! Finally, my sincerest thanks to the tireless UK International Conference committee whose hard work made this encouraging meeting possible. Watch the UCA blog for an announcement of the next UK international conference!Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-381-mainstream-christian-theologies-in-the-year-240-what-trinitarian-apologists-dont-knowThomas Gaston, Dynamic Monarchianism: the Earliest Christology?Unitarian Christian Alliancepodcast 281 – Introducing the Unitarian Christian AllianceClarifying Catholic Christologiespodcast 270 – Origen’s “one God”von Harnack on logos theories and mysteryEvolution of the Trinity – with Bill Schlegelpodcast 262 – The Trinity before Nicea?Hurtado on the early worship of JesusCraig: how Nicene orthodoxy rules out the full deity of ChristOrigen on the Challenge to Jesus is God Apologiststrinitarian or unitarian? 7 – Origen uncensoredOrigen, Paul, and Peter: Christians worship the Jews’ godRufinus’s corruption of Origen’s On First Principles – Part 1Rufinus’s corruption of Origen’s On First Principles – Part 2podcast 24 – How to be a Monotheistic TrinitarianWeekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Blood (Instrumental)" by Anthem of Rain. freemusicarchive.org/music/anthem-of-rain/freedom/blood-instrumental
trinities 380 - Dr. Dustin Smith on Wisdom Christology in the Gospel of John khanpadawan 2024-05-17 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-380-dr-dustin-smith-on-wisdom-christology-in-the-gospel-of-john To understand a book as its author intended, you don’t look to its future, but rather to its past. What has this author read, and what could he presuppose his audience to have read? These other pieces of literature are like tools in the author’s hands.The biblical book of Proverbs famously features a vivid personification, Lady Wisdom. She pleads with people to seek and find her, and she even appears alongside God when he is creating. As Dr. Dustin Smith explains, this character appears in a number of later ancient Jewish writings in various ways, and can even be described as “incarnate” in certain people. Many of these would have been accessible both to the author of John and his audience.Paul famously writes that Christ is “the wisdom of God” (1 Corinthians 1:24). But as James Dunn has observed, this idea of Christ as God’s wisdom is more prominent in John than in any other New Testament book. Drawing on an impressive array of recent scholarship, in Wisdom Christology in the Gospel of John Dr. Dustin Smith argues that “the Johannine Jesus is incarnate Wisdom and that this christological presentation permeates all twenty-one chapters of the Fourth Gospel” (p. 213).In this new discussion we focus on the basics of “wisdom christology” and on how that idea sheds light on the famous opening to the fourth gospel, John 1:1-18.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-380-dr-dustin-smith-on-wisdom-christology-in-the-gospel-of-johnSmith, Wisdom Christology in the Gospel of JohnSmith, The Son of God: Three Views of the Identity of JesusTransfigured: Dr. Dustin Smith – Wisdom Christology in the Gospel of Johnprevious trinities podcast episodes with Dustin SmithUnitarian Christian Alliancepodcast 301 – Dr. Daniel Boyarin on John 1podcast 295 – James Martineau on John 1John A. T. Robinson on “the Word” of John 1How John 1 was intelligible in the first centurypodcast 338 – What John 1 MeantThis week’s thinking music is “Spacedust” by airtone.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Spacedust" by airtone. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/airtone/64741
trinities 379 - AI and I evaluate my debate with James White khanpadawan 2024-03-23 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-379-ai-and-i-evaluate-my-debate-with-james-white The way to evaluate a debate is to actively chart and compare the arguments made by each side. Debaters call this “flowing” a debate.I sat down and did this, working carefully all the way through my recent debate with James White on the question “Is Jesus Yahweh?”In this episode I’ll give you my evaluation of the debate, with an assist from the cutting edge Chat Debate Beta AI. She and I even go so far as to declare a winner!Do you agree? Why or why not? How would you have argued one side or the other differentlyI’ve been interviewed several times about the debate; see the videos @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-379-ai-and-i-evaluate-my-debate-with-james-whiteLinks for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-379-ai-and-i-evaluate-my-debate-with-james-whitethe fully produced video of the debateWho Should Christians Worship?Microsoft CopilotIdentityRestitutio 451 Wisdom Christology in Hebrews 1.10-12 (Jerry Wierwille) July 8, 2022Restitutio 450 Seven Interpretive Options for Hebrews 1.10-12 (Jerry Wierwille) June 30, 2022Restitutio 449 Intertextuality and Interpretation of Hebrews 1 (Jerry Wierwille) June 23, 2022This week’s thinking music is “Dit it and Quit It” by Van Loon.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Dit it and Quit It" by Van Loon. freemusicarchive.org/music/van-loon/jazz-funk-huh-vol-3/dit-it-and-quit-it
trinities 378 - Debate: Is Jesus Yahweh? White vs. Tuggy - Part 2 khanpadawan 2024-03-16 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-378-debate-is-jesus-yahweh-white-vs-tuggy-part-2 In this episode: mutual interrogations, closing statements, and audience questions and answers.Which side put forward the stronger opening case?Which did a better job in rebuttal?What if anything was revealed by the mutual interrogations?What if anything was added by the brief closing statements?And which answers to audience questions did you think were important, and why?You be the judge.In the next episode I’ll share some of my thoughts about this debate.Thanks to James White and to the co-sponsors of the debate: First Lutheran Houston and the Unitarian Christian Alliance.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-378-debate-is-jesus-yahweh-white-vs-tuggy-part-2Restitutio 539 Dale Tuggy’s Thoughts on the James White Debate: Is Jesus Yahweh?UCA Podcastthe fully produced UCA version of the debate videoAlpha & Omega MinistriesRestitutio 450 Seven Interpretive Options for Hebrews 1.10-12 (Jerry Wierwille)This week’s thinking music is “Badoobap” by Van Loon.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Badoobap" by Van Loon. freemusicarchive.org/music/van-loon/jazz-funk-huh-vol-1/badoobap
trinities 377 - Debate: Is Jesus Yahweh? White vs. Tuggy - Part 1 khanpadawan 2024-03-14 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-377-debate-is-jesus-yahweh-white-vs-tuggy-part-1 This episode contains the Pro and Con opening statements and rebuttals from the debate on March 9, 2024 between James White and Dale Tuggy in Houston, Texas. The debate question is “Is Jesus Yahweh?”Which side makes the stronger opening arguments? Which side does a better job at rebutting the other’s opening arguments?Because of our many slides, the fully edited video version below is recommended. (However, the above podcast audio-only version above has some groovy Thinking Music in between the segments.)My thanks to the host Pastor and Moderator Evan McClanahan of First Lutheran Houston, James White, the UCA Podcast‘s host and producer Mark Cain, who masterfully cleaned up the source audio, and UCA Board Member Brandon Duke, who produced the video above.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-377-debate-is-jesus-yahweh-white-vs-tuggy-part-1pdf of Tuggy’s opening Con statementA letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and Me (Revised)podcast 344 – Craig’s Contradictory Christ – Part 2podcast 343 – Craig’s Contradictory Christ – Part 1podcast 341 – Reflections on my debate with Dr. Andrew Lokepodcast 340 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 2podcast 339 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 1podcast 87 – Kermit Zarley on the deity and preexistence of Jesuspodcast 332 – Emlyn’s Humble InquiryDebate – “Is Jesus Human and not Divine?” – Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Chris Datepodcast 144 – Dr. Timothy Pawl’s In Defense of Conciliar Christology – Part 2podcast 143 – Dr. Timothy Pawl’s In Defense of Conciliar Christology – Part 1This week's thinking music is "Tuff" by Van Loon. freemusicarchive.org/music/van-loon/jazz-funk-huh-vol-3/tuffAuto-generated Chapters:00:00:00 trinities 377 - Debate: Is Jesus Yahweh? White vs. Tuggy - Part 100:00:22 Introduction 00:01:43 Opening Statements 00:02:02 Dr. White's Argument for Jesus as Yahweh 00:10:32 The Judgment Oracle and Isaiah's Vision 00:26:49 Negative Opening Statement00:28:42 Prime Principle of Confirmation 00:31:13 Jesus's Relationship with God 00:32:07 Relevance of Difference in Function 00:35:01 Jesus's Position Under God 00:35:29 Jesus's Subordination to God 00:37:04 Jesus's Divine Privileges and Powers 00:38:00 Positive and Negative Observations 00:38:04 Jesus' Human Limitations 00:38:46 Jesus as a Man 00:39:32 Jesus Never Referred to as God in Greek 00:40:33 Context Tells Jesus Isn't God in Highest Sense 00:42:22 Romans 9:5 and Jesus as God Over All 00:43:46 New Testament Authors and Incoherence 00:45:40 Jesus and Divine Life Independence 00:46:14 Human Limitations and Vulnerabilities 00:47:30 Invalidation of Divine Attributes 00:48:51 Confirmation of the Man Thesis 00:51:54 Lack of Rebuttal Address 01:02:15 Case Built on Many Clear Texts 01:07:51 Difficult Text in Hebrews 1 01:11:38 Subject of Philippians 2 Passage
trinities 376 - The Trinity, the Deity of Christ, and the Best Craig - Part 2 khanpadawan 2024-02-19 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-376-the-trinity-the-deity-of-christ-and-the-best-craig-part-2 This is the final part of my response to some recent podcast episodes by Dr. William Lane Craig here and here.Dr. Craig accuses me of being disingenuous in claiming that his minimal, so-called “biblical” doctrine consisting of two sentences is not enough to count as a trinitarian theology. I stand by that claim, and point out that it is unclear why Dr. Craig thinks that those sentences say anything about a tripersonal God.I also discuss his claim that his rival hypothesis, that the New Testament authors assumed those two sentences, explains the 20 facts I build my case on in the forthcoming debate book. I don’t discuss all 20 facts here, but I present the 5 facts that I presented in the recent book panel session, and point out that Craig’s hypothesis in fact doesn’t explain any of those, in contrast to the hypothesis I call “U,” that the New Testament authors assume that the one God just is the Father and that neither the Son nor the Spirit are fully divine.In his recent podcast Dr. Craig also seems to suggest that I think there is one doctrine of the Trinity, and that in the debate book I attacked a straw man theology which no trinitarian holds. I point out that both claims are mistaken. I also discuss the two different Trinity theories he has presented, pointing out that one could be true while the other is false.Finally, I summarize the shortcomings of our recent interactions and I challenge Dr. Craig to a full-length, face to face public debate, suggesting four topics:The New Testament teaches that the one God is tripersonal.The Gospel According to John teaches that Jesus and the Father are equally divine.The Chalcedonian doctrine of a divine and human Jesus is coherent.The New Testament teaches that Jesus and the Father are equally divine.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-376-the-trinity-the-deity-of-christ-and-the-best-craig-part-2podcast 374 – Book Session Identity Crisis – Part 3podcast 373 – Book Session Identity Crisis – Part 2podcast 372 – Book Session Identity Crisis – Part 1Reasonable Faith Podcast: Trinitarianism vs Unitarianism Part OneReasonable Faith Podcast: Trinitarianism vs Unitarianism Part Two“Craig’s Contradictory Christ”“Trinity,” Stanford Encyclopedia of PhilosophyThis week’s thinking music is “Hi as Hats” by Van Loon.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Hi as Hats" by Van Loon. freemusicarchive.org/music/van-loon/jazz-funk-huh-vol-3/hi-as-hatsChapters:00:00:22 Introduction 00:19:44 Dr. Craig's Recap 00:25:56 The Low Point 00:33:59 The New Testament Pattern of Worship 00:44:00 The Doctrine of the Trinity 00:51:39 Closing Statements
trinities 375 - The Trinity, the Deity of Christ, and the Best Craig - Part 1 khanpadawan 2024-02-17 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-375-the-trinity-the-deity-of-christ-and-the-best-craig-part-1 In this episode I first explain what I mean by “the best Craig” and why in my view we’re not getting that in some recent responses to my arguments. I then respond to some recent podcast episodes by Dr. William Lane Craig here and here, where Craig is not engaging with my arguments, instead dismissing me as a fringe kook who can be safely ignored.I note how quickly he jumps from the Trinity to the Incarnation, and I challenge him to explain why, on biblical grounds, a doctrine of the Trinity is essential for Christianity. I also point out some mistakes and misunderstandings, as well as his failure to engage with my published critique of his Neo-Apollinarian christology and my views on the fourth gospel.We again revisit what Craig calls “the modern relation of identity” (really: a modern understanding of identity) and I point out what is now an area of agreement about the concept of identity. Yet based on his recent remarks, Craig doesn’t understand what I think about the identity of God and the Father in the New Testament.I refute his recent allegation that no New Testament scholar thinks that nowhere in the New Testament is Jesus taught to be fully divine; my counterexample is the famous and influential James Dunn. I then offer a few thoughts on his fallback objection that the vast majority of New Testament scholars would disagree.Lastly, I respond to his brief argument from divine providence and the fourth gospel. Am I committed to God failing in his promised post-resurrection revelation?Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-375-the-trinity-the-deity-of-christ-and-the-best-craig-part-1podcast 374 – Book Session Identity Crisis – Part 3podcast 373 – Book Session Identity Crisis – Part 2podcast 372 – Book Session Identity Crisis – Part 1Reasonable Faith Podcast: Trinitarianism vs Unitarianism Part OneReasonable Faith Podcast: Trinitarianism vs Unitarianism Part TwoCraig, In Quest of the Historical Adam: A Biblical and Scientific ExplorationCraig and van Inwagen, Do Numbers Exist?4 views on the Trinity – William Lane Craig, Dale Tuggy, Beau Branson, William Haskerthe arguments Dr. Craig didn’t want his podcast audience to hearUCA YouTube channelpodcast 270 – Origen’s “one God”Does God Exist? William Lane Craig vs. Christopher Hitchens – Full DebateGaston, Dynamic Monarchianism: The Earliest Christology?Restitutio Podcast 528 Dynamic Monarchianism: The Earliest Christology (Thomas Gaston)podcast 176 – Photinus of Sirmiumpodcast 286 – Is the Trinity Essential? – Three Viewspodcast 291 – From one God to two gods to three “Gods” – John 1 and early Christian theologiespodcast 338 – What John 1 Meant“Craig’s Contradictory Christ”podcast 344 – Craig’s Contradictory Christ – Part 2podcast 343 – Craig’s Contradictory Christ – Part 1the pythagorean theoremHow much did Aristotle understand about numerical sameness (identity)?Debating Dale Starter PackJames DunnDunn, Christology in the MakingDunn, Did the First Christians Worship Jesus?SEP “Trinity” 1.4 The Trinity as IncoherentMolinism, a.k.a. Middle KnowledgeA letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and MeThis week's thinking music is "Lan Voon" by Van Loon. freemusicarchive.org/music/van-loon/jazz-funk-huh-vol-1/lan-voonChapters:00:00:22 Introduction 00:02:31 The Best Dale, The Best Craig 00:05:39 Disappointments and Misrepresentations 00:21:54 "The Modern Relation of Identity"00:32:01 Scholarly Consensus on New Testament 00:34:21 Scholarly Ignorance of Alternate Views 00:40:57 Worship of Jesus in New Testament 00:47:51 Divine Providence and Unitarianism 00:51:34 Fulfillment of Jesus' Promise
trinities 374 - Book Session Identity Crisis - Part 3 khanpadawan 2023-12-24 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-374-book-session-identity-crisis-part-3 This episode is the final portion of the EPS session devoted to the forthcoming book, One God, Three Persons, Four Views, edited by Dr. Chad McIntosh. You’ll hear the entire Q&A portion of the session, plus my commentary thereupon. Topics include:Jesus and the “one like a son of man” in Daniel 7Jesus’ claim in Mark 2 and in Matthew 9 to be authorized to forgive sinsthe accusation of blasphemy lobbed at Jesus in Mark 14:61-64.the “worship” of Jesus in Matthew 2 and elsewherehow Revelation 1 describes the exalted Jesus in similar terms to the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7the title “Alpha and Omega” which is used in Revelation for both God and Jesuswhether John 15:3 implies that it must have been God who died for our sinswhether Romans 10:9 shows that in Paul’s view Jesus is Yahwehwhether being begotten by God implies being God, and the charge in John 10 that Jesus is “making himself God”John 17:5 and the issue of Jesus’s pre-human existence in the New Testamentwhether John 12:41 implies that Jesus is YahwehJohn 1 and the deity of Christthat the Hebrew echad can refer to non-simple, complex unitiesThere is also a question about and some more discussion of Dr. Craig’s controversial claim that it is an anachronism to suppose that New Testament authors could make claims involving the concept of numerical identity. I point out that any normal adult, then or now, can wonder, after twice referring, if they’ve referred to the same thing twice or rather to two things in succession. I also point out that the anti-modalist plank of trinitarian confessions, even ancient ones, employs the concept of same-thing-as when it denies that any “Person” of the Trinity is numerically the same with any of the others (i.e. that all of these are false: f = s, s = h, h = f).For his part, Dr. Craig asks me if I accept a Socinian account of atonement, and you’ll also hear the humorous end of this panel session, as the editor Dr. McIntosh hands out clever gifts to each of the four authors.In the final segment I critique some answers Dr. Craig has recently given on his podcast to some listener questions about the Bible and “the Trinity,” also offering my own answers.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-374-book-session-identity-crisis-part-3podcast 373 – Book Session Identity Crisis – Part 2podcast 372 – Book Session Identity Crisis – Part 1Reasonable Faith Podcast: Questions on Morality, the Trinity, and Retirement, December 11, 20231 Chronicles 20:29; Philippians 2:9-11; Romans 5; Matthew 1:23; John 1:1; Mark 12:28-34; Deuteronomy 6:4; Deuteronomy 4:35; John 14:28; John 1:18; John 20:28; John 20:17; John 10:31-36; John 20:30-31; John 14:9; Acts 17:11.IdentityHow much did Aristotle understand about numerical sameness (identity)?Craig, Atonement and the Death of Christfulfillment fallacy: the Bible teaches that David is Godfulfillment fallacy: the Bible on another previous life of JesusJesus’s argument in John 10podcast 235 – The Case Against Preexistencepodcast 338 – What John 1 Meantpodcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”podcast 70 – The one God and his Son according to Johnpodcast 146 – Jesus as an Exemplar of Faith in the New Testamentpodcast 92 – Dr. Joshua Thurow on objections to atonement theoriespodcast 91 – Dr. Joshua Thurow on theories of the atonementpodcast 189 – The unfinished business of the ReformationThis week’s thinking music is “Run Hard” by Mr. Smith.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Run Hard" by Mr. Smith. freemusicarchive.org/music/mr-smith/fever-dreams-1/run-hard
trinities 373 - Book Session Identity Crisis - Part 2 khanpadawan 2023-12-05 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-373-book-session-identity-crisis-part-2In this second part (part 1 here) you’ll hear the mutual interrogation portion of the EPS session on book One God, Three Persons, Four Views, with plenty of commentary by me and some extra relevant audio. This portion of the session contains a number of interesting exchanges. Among them:Hasker (via McIntosh) asks me whether my views entail that God’s spirit has failed to lead the Church into all truth (John 16:13).Branson asks Craig how, if most ancient people lacked the concept of numerical identity, they were able to count.Branson asks me how many saviors (or “saviors”) I think there are.Craig asks me how I could totally miss his point in the book.Craig asks Branson if Branson is committed to the controversial thesis of numerical sameness without identity.I ask Craig how he can talk about a tripersonal god while also saying that “the Trinity” is a plural referring term, not referring to any one, individual thing.I ask Craig how he could possibly show that Jesus “is God” is the second-highest use of the term “God,” where it doesn’t imply being a god.I ask Branson whether creedal orthodoxy, rightly understood, rules in or rules out people who identify the only god with the Trinity (i.e. the triune god).Craig urges, as he did in part 1, that most ancient people either lacked a concept of numerical identity (represented in modern logics by the symbol =) or at least that they did not have a modern grasp of that concept, so that they could explain it like this. You will hear in this episode how he came to this conviction. In his view this is a simple argument by which to show that any unitarian interpretation of the New Testament (i.e. any one on which the authors hold that the unique God and the Father are one and the same), is an historical anachronism, and so needn’t be taken seriously.I push back both in the session and in the commentary here, urging via a thought-experiment and via examination of a couple of New Testament passages (John 7:41-42 and Luke 24:13-35), that ordinary ancient people did have a concept of same-thing-as or numerical identity. I also show, using some additional conference audio, that Craig is committed to their having that concept by the view he attributes to the authors of Scripture and to the Pre-Nicene “fathers” that God is the creator of absolutely everything else.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-373-book-session-identity-crisis-part-2Part 1Reasonable Faith podcast episode: Dr. Craig’s Health UpdateTuggy, “Antiunitarian Arguments from Divine Perfection“podcast 248 – How Trinity theories conflict with the BibleMcIntosh review of Craig, God Over All and Craig, God and Abstract Objects (website)Craig, Cadbury Lectures: “God Over All” (2015) playlistPapers by Peter van InwagenThis week’s thinking music is “Cardboard Engineering” by Jesse Spillane.
trinities 372 - Book Session Identity Crisis - Part 1 khanpadawan 2023-11-29 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-372-book-session-identity-crisis-part-1 In this episode you’ll hear the four opening speeches in a book session at the Evangelical Philosophical Society conference in San Antonio, Texas in November of 2023. The book is One God, Three Persons, Four Views, edited by Chad McIntosh, forthcoming probably deep into 2024. (See UCA podcast #77 for the back story about the book.)The speakers are the co-authors William Hasker (his paper presented by Dr. McIntosh), Beau Branson, William Lane Craig, and Dale Tuggy. Each one is supposed to explain what is distinctive about his approach to the Trinity. Dr. Hasker presents the basics of his three-self theory, focusing on his claim that the “Persons” really are “centers of consciousness” (selves). Dr. Branson explains his “Monarchical Trinitarianism,” focusing on a number of linguistic distinctions, such as different meanings of “god.” Dr. Craig briefly explains what he claims is a minimal and biblical Trinity theory and what he claims is an unproblematic model of the doctrine of the Trinity amounts to. He also urges that I have failed to rebut his case that Jesus “is God” (i.e. not identical with God, but rather that he has divine-Person divinity, as opposed to god-divinity). Finally, I present my unitarian Christian view, focusing on five of my twenty facts which favor the thesis that the New Testament authors are unitarian over the thesis that those authors are trinitarian.I provide an opinionated running commentary on the presentations . . . and a few sound effects.Next time: interactions between the four panelists, and some extra information about Craig’s claim that the New Testament authors had no concept (or no clear grasp of the concept) of identity, which is how he hopes to refute any understanding of New Testament theology on which the one God and the Father are one and the same.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-372-book-session-identity-crisis-part-1 Tim Stratton and Free Thinking MinistriesReading comprehension quiz: Johann 17:1-3podcast 227 – Who Should Christians Worship?podcast 28 – Interview with Dr. William Hasker about his Metaphysics and the Tripersonal God – Part 2podcast 27 – Interview with Dr. William Hasker about his Metaphysics and the Tripersonal God – Part 1podcast 78 – Mr. Chad McIntosh on the Trinity as a Functional PersonGod as a functional PersonKapusta, Scripturae Contra Trinitatem – The Epistle to the Hebrews: An Anthology of Quotations, Alternative Expositions, and Critical Commentaries on Common Trinitarian Proof-Textspodcast 351 – Thoughts on my Dialogue with Craig on the Trinity and the Bible – Part 2podcast 350 – Thoughts on my Dialogue with Craig on the Trinity and the Bible – Part 1podcast 349 – Craig-Tuggy dialogue on trinitarian vs. unitarian theologiesMahaparinibbana Suttapodcast 246 – Response to Branson Part 4 – the shortcomings of “monarchical trinitarianism”podcast 245 – Response to Branson Part 3 – Dueling Definitionspodcast 244 – Response to Branson Part 2 – Early Orthodox Trinitarianspodcast 243 – Response to Branson Part 1 – The Orthodox Doctrine of the TrinityThis week’s thinking music is “Into the J” by Admiral Bob.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Into the J" by Admiral Bob. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/admiralbob77/61106
trinities 371 - Dr. Steven Nemes on divine Christology in the New Testament khanpadawan 2023-10-09 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-371-dr-steven-nemes-on-divine-christology-in-the-new-testamentIn this episode Dr. Nemes and I discuss chapter 6 of his new book Trinity and Incarnation: A Post-Catholic Theology.Clearly the Jesus of the New Testament is supposed to be special, indeed, unique, and in some sense he must be “divine.” But in what sense, exactly? And what if anything does this have to do with God’s giving Jesus his spirit?Topics include:whether the full deity of Christ is an obvious New Testament teachingSpirit Christologywhat Dr. Nemes calls the basic argument for Christ having two natures and how this compares to analyses given in my debate book, pp. 17-24traditional partitive exegesis and Dr. Neme’s objections to thiswhether only God (or only a divine Person) can forgive sinsJesus as a “deified” human beingthe New Testament’s portrayals of Jesus as having various human limitsA trilemma based on the question: Exactly who did God the Father empower to forgive sins and to perform miracles?Whether a non-divine Jesus should be called “a mere man” and how this tradition originated in the 2nd Christian century.The ancient Dynamic Monarchians within the Christian mainstream.“Kenosis” and the modern suggestion that the Incarnate Christ, even though divine, nonetheless had to do miracles though the power of God’s Spirit, rather than using his own divine powers.Opera trinitatis ad extra indivisa sunt.divine simplicity and immutabilityWhy John 3:13 doesn’t presuppose Jesus’ literal pre-human existence.The significance of Jesus’ baptism by John.How Philippians 2 and 2 Corinthians 8:9 are about the man Jesuswhy Paul says in Galatians 1:1 that he’s not an apostle “through man”Why John 17:5 doesn’t presuppose Jesus’ literal pre-human existence.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-371-dr-steven-nemes-on-divine-christology-in-the-new-testamentpodcast 370 – Dr. Steven Nemes’s formal challenge to Trinity theoriesTrinity and Incarnation: A Post-Catholic TheologyDr. Nemes’s homepageA letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and Mepodcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”podcast 338 – What John 1 Meantpodcast 291 – From one God to two gods to three “Gods” – John 1 and early Christian theologiesRacovian Catechismpodcast 188 – Dr. Paul W. Newman’s Spirit Christology – Part 2podcast 187 – Dr. Paul W. Newman’s Spirit Christology – Part 1Clarifying Catholic Christologies – by Dr. Dale Tuggypodcast 235 – The Case Against Preexistencea reading of Philippians 2:5-11podcast 268 – Another look at Philippians 2 with Dr. Dustin Smithpodcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!Date & Tuggy, Is Jesus Human and Not Divine?Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Blood (Instrumental)" by Anthem of Rain. freemusicarchive.org/music/anthem-of-rain/freedom/blood-instrumental
trinities 370 - Dr. Steven Nemess formal challenge to Trinity theories khanpadawan 2023-09-26 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-370-dr-steven-nemess-formal-challenge-to-trinity-theories The thing about objecting to Trinity theories is that they are many and different, and generally speaking mutually inconsistent, so that an objection which applies to one Trinity theory will not apply to others.But in chapter 3 of his new book Trinity and Incarnation: A Post-Catholic Theology, Dr. Steven Nemes gives a destructive tetralemma argument which applies to Trinity theories generally. This argument appeals only to the idea of ontological priority, then asking questions about the one ousia (substance, essence, nature) and the three hypostases (“Persons”): is (1) the ousia prior to the hypostases, or (2) are the hypostases prior to the ousia, or (3) are these all distinct but none is “before” or “after” any other, or (4) are the ousia and the hypostases not distinct (and so none is “before” or “after” any other)?These are arguably all the options. But whichever way the trinitarian turns, it looks like his choice results in inconsistency with something else he’s committed to, such as divine simplicity or divine “processions.”Dr. Nemes in effect is issuing a challenge to catholic theologians: how can you pick one of those four options and yet not contradict other theses to which you’re committed?At the end of the episode, we discuss another argument, which is a 2-case dilemma. Does the divine nature imply or include tripersonality, or not? Either way, there would seem to serious problems for the trinitarian!Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-370-dr-steven-nemess-formal-challenge-to-trinity-theoriesDr. Nemes’s homepageTrinity and Incarnation: A Post-Catholic TheologyOrthodoxy and HeresyTheological Authority in the Church: Reconsidering Traditionalism and HierarchyTheology of the Manifest: Christianity without MetaphysicsEating Christ’s Flesh: A Case for Memorialismpodcast 355 – Dr. Steven Nemes on Trinity theories – Part 2podcast 354 – Dr. Steven Nemes on Trinity theories – Part 1Brower and Rea, “Material Constitution and the Trinity“Tuggy, “Constitution Trinitarianism: An Appraisal“Tuggy, “Divine deception, identity, and Social Trinitarianism“Tuggy, “Antiunitarian Arguments from Divine Perfection“ (on arguments that if there is one divine Person then there must be exactly three)This week’s thinking music is “PHENIX” by Koi-Discovery.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "PHENIX" by Koi-Discovery. freemusicarchive.org/music/koi-discovery/post-morphose/phenixmp3
trinities 369 - Anna Shoffner Brown - Nothing Mere about a Man in the Image of God khanpadawan 2023-09-04 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-369-anna-shoffner-brown-nothing-mere-about-a-man-in-the-image-of-god Biblical unitarians often face the stock objection that according to us Jesus is a “mere man”–that is, a human who is not also divine, disparagingly described as “mere.” This objection assumes that a human only Jesus couldn’t possibly do all that is ascribed to him in the New Testament.But as Anna Shoffner Brown shows in this insightful original presentation from the 2022 UCA Conference in Ohio, the biblical teaching that humankind is made in God’s image means that we, and so the human Jesus, can represent God and work on his behalf on the earth.We mustn’t think too highly of human beings, but also, we mustn’t think too lowly of a race of beings who are made in God’s image.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-369-anna-shoffner-brown-nothing-mere-about-a-man-in-the-image-of-godthe original video (other videos from the 2022 UCA Conference)UCA Podcast 6. Working at the Colson Center – Anna Brown (all UCA Podcast episodes)The 2023 UCA Conference in Springfield, OhioCompass Christian Church in Louisville, KentuckyLHIM – Living Hope International MinistriesChrist Before Creeds – Dale Tuggy, Sean Finnegan, Anna Brown & Jeff Deublepodcast 335 – Pastor Jeff Deuble’s Christ Before CreedsRestitutio Podcast 408 Christ before Creeds Book (Jeff Deuble)This week’s thinking music is “Southfolk 1st Division” by Marco Trovatello.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Southfolk 1st Division" by Marco Trovatello. freemusicarchive.org/music/Marco_Trovatello/Not_At_All/01_-_Southfolk
trinities 368 - Dr. Dustin Smith on the Plural of Majesty in the Hebrew Bible khanpadawan 2023-08-12 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-368-dr-dustin-smith-on-the-plural-of-majesty-in-the-hebrew-bible In the famous creation scene in Genesis God says, “Let us make man in our image and likeness.” Genesis 1:26About such passages trinitarian theologian Dr. Fred Sanders writes, Outside of the New Testament’s revelation of the Trinity, it’s hard to make sense of the singular/plural dichotomy in these passages. Engaging them with a trinitarian understanding sheds new light on their possible implications. (source)Sanders also notes something surprising about the main word we translate as “God” in the Hebrew Bible: While the word Elohim has the distinct im ending that marks it as plural, Elohim seems to be an agent of singular verb actions. It would be irresponsible to translate Elohim as gods as in “In the beginning the gods created the heavens and the earth.” So it seems that this name of God that is plural in nature could also point to the coming New Testament revelation of the Trinity. (source)Is Dr. Sanders correct? Or is there something else going on here?In this illuminating presentation from the 2022 UCA Conference, Dr. Dustin Smith explains that there is something else going on here: a general linguistic device found in ancient Hebrew and in some other ancient languages. In light of this information, these (to us) unexpected plural forms neither demand nor even hint at multiple persons in God.If you want to hear more quality presentations like this, meet and fellowship with other unitarian Christians, and take part in practical workshops, please join us at the 2023 Unitarian Christian Alliance Conference in Springfield, Ohio October 19-21, 2023.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-368-dr-dustin-smith-on-the-plural-of-majesty-in-the-hebrew-bibleDr. Smith’s Biblical Unitarian Podcastthe original UCA video of this lecturevideos from the 2022 UCA Conferencepodcast 268 – Another look at Philippians 2 with Dr. Dustin Smithpodcast 119 – The Son of God 3 – Dr. Dustin Smith’s “Socinian” view of Jesuspodcast 62 – Dr. Dustin Smith on the preexistence of Jesus in the gospel of Johnpodcast 61 – Dr. Dustin Smith on preexistence in ancient Jewish thoughtUnitarian Christian AllianceThis week’s thinking music is “We are now” by Marco Trovatello. Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "We are now" by Marco Trovatello. freemusicarchive.org/music/Marco_Trovatello/Not_At_All/05_-_We_Are_Now
trinities 367 - Smith and Barlow vs. Nesan and Essary debate - Is Jesus Yahweh? - Part 2 khanpadawan 2023-07-03 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-367-smith-and-barlow-vs-nesan-and-essary-debate-is-jesus-yahweh-part-2 In this episode you’ll hear my edit of the second, longer half of this excellent debate: two rounds of cross-examinations, closing statements, and audience Q&A.Which side surprised you? What arguments here struck you as important? Did either side make important mistakes? Which side made the overall strongest case? Leave us a comment below.And after you listen you can check out the post-debate reflections of Barlow and Smith on Transfigured: youtu.be/Uy7gvfE-YKsAnd see the first two links below, where Sean Finnegan and Brandon Duke continue the argument on the Restitutio podcast, rebutting the arguments of the “pro” side in this debate.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-367-smith-and-barlow-vs-nesan-and-essary-debate-is-jesus-yahweh-part-2491 Refuting Kyle Essary’s Case That Jesus Is Yahweh492 Refuting Samuel Nesan’s Case That Jesus Is YahwehMarlon Wilson’s YouTube channel The Gospel Truththe original debate video: Dustin Smith/William Barlow Vs Samuel Nesan/Kyle Essary: Jesus is Yahweh? EP 263Biblical Unitarian PodcastSamuel NesanDr. Kyle EssaryCompass Christian Church in LouisvilleWill Barlow – Biblical Unitarian Church PlanterJude 5: Did Jesus deliver the people out of Egypt?MontanaA letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and Mepodcast 264 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 2podcast 263 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 1Unitarian Christian Alliancepodcast 124 – a challenge to “Jesus is God” apologistsThis week’s thinking music is “Strength of Knowing” by Jesse Spillane.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week’s thinking music is "Strength of Knowing" by Jesse Spillane. freemusicarchive.org/music/Jesse_Spillane/Sky_Ship/Jesse_Spillane_-_Sky_Ship_-_09_Strength_of_Knowing
trinities 366 - Smith and Barlow vs. Nesan and Essary debate - Is Jesus Yahweh? - Part 1 khanpadawan 2023-06-20 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-366-smith-and-barlow-vs-nesan-and-essary-debate-is-jesus-yahweh-part-1 Is the Jesus of the Bible Yahweh himself? That's the question of this excellent debate. It's two vs. two, with the pro side being Dr. Kyle Essary and Samuel Nesan, and the con side being Dr. Dustin Smith and pastor Will Barlow. If you're trying to make up your mind, it will help you to work through this debate, evaluating each side's arguments for yourself. This episode is roughly the first half of the debate: the rest of it will be episode 367.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-366-smith-and-barlow-vs-nesan-and-essary-debate-is-jesus-yahweh-part-1Marlon Wilson's YouTube channel The Gospel Truththe original debate video: Dustin Smith/William Barlow Vs Samuel Nesan/Kyle Essary: Jesus is Yahweh? EP 263Biblical Unitarian PodcastSamuel NesanDr. Kyle EssaryCompass Christian Church in LouisvilleWill Barlow - Biblical Unitarian Church PlanterA letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and Mepodcast 264 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 2podcast 263 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 1Unitarian Christian AllianceThis week's thinking music is "Admiral funk" by sparky.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Admiral funk" by sparky. http://ccmixter.org/files/sparky/64447
trinities 365 - Why debate theology? khanpadawan 2023-06-06 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-365-why-debate-theology This episode is a short informal talk I gave in October of 2019 at a missions conference put on by Kingdom of God Ministry and Missions.After explaining some ways that theological debates relate to evangelism, I then discuss some “ear closers,” factors which prevent the unitarian Christian perspective from being heard. Debates, I suggest, bypass those.I also explain the usefulness of debates, and why they can help some people, even while being detrimental to other people.In Q&A following my talk I field mostly practical questions.Below are links to most of my previous debates, as well as to some other things mentioned in this episode.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-365-why-debate-theologyKingdom of God Ministry and MissionsDale’s college lectures on Islampodcast 232 – Trinity Club OrientationEvolution of the Trinity – with Bill Schlegelpodcast 9 – post-debate interview with Pastor Steve Katsaraspodcast 8 – post-debate interview with Mr. Shahir Nagapodcast 7 – post-debate interview with Dr. Bernie Powerpodcast 6 – the “Jesus: Prophet, Messiah, God?” Debate in Melbourne, Australiapodcast 300 – Does the New Testament teach Trinity Monotheism? – with Dale Glover – Part 2podcast 299 – Does the New Testament teach Trinity Monotheism? – with Dale Glover – Part 1podcast 351 – Thoughts on my Dialogue with Craig on the Trinity and the Bible – Part 2podcast 350 – Thoughts on my Dialogue with Craig on the Trinity and the Bible – Part 1podcast 349 – Craig-Tuggy dialogue on trinitarian vs. unitarian theologiespodcast 340 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 2podcast 339 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 1podcast 119 – The Son of God 3 – Dr. Dustin Smith’s “Socinian” view of Jesuspodcast 118 – The Son of God 2 – Mr. Danny Andre Dixon’s “Arian” view of Jesuspodcast 117 – The Son of God 1 – Dr. Lee Irons’s trinitarian view of Jesuspodcast 122 – 7 Christians on 4 questions in the “same god” controversypodcast 121 – Do Christians and Muslims worship the same god? Part 2podcast 120 – Do Christians and Muslims worship the same god? Part 1podcast 250 – Tuggy vs. Brown debate – audience Q&Apodcast 249 – Tuggy vs. Brown debate – The God of the Bible is the Father alonepodcast 264 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 2podcast 263 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 1This week’s thinking music is “The Blue Remix File” by JGSH616.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "The Blue Remix File" by JGSH616. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/JGSH616/61571
trinities 364 - The God who Suffers - a Response to The Reluctant Theologian Podcast 118 Why di… khanpadawan 2023-04-26 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-364-the-god-who-suffers-a-response-to-the-reluctant-theologian-podcast-118-why-did-god-become-incarnate In a thought-provoking recent episode released before this Easter, analytic theologian Dr. R.T. Mullins suggested three reasons God would have to become incarnate, building on work by Swinburne and McConnell.The one he focuses the most on in the idea that God would be obligated to become incarnate so that he can suffer along with us, his beloved creatures.In this episode I evaluate those three reasons using Scripture and reason. I argue that we can have the theological goods Dr. Mullins wants at a better price.Which case did you find more convincing, and why?Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-364-the-god-who-suffers-a-response-to-the-reluctant-theologian-podcast-118-why-did-god-become-incarnateDr. Mullins’s websiteThe Reluctant Theologian Podcast Ep. 118. Why Did God Become Incarnate?The Reluctant Theologian Podcasthis publicationsRichard Swinburne @ trinitiesSwinburne, The Resurrection of God IncarnateSwinburne, Was Jesus God?Francis J. McConnell, The Diviner Immanencethree–self Trinity theoriesone–self Trinity theoriespodcast 226 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 3 – post-biblical uses of biblical words, and new wordspodcast 225 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 – Old “Lord” vs. New “Lord”podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Biblepodcast 277 – Was Christ tempted in every way?TheoLogicapodcast 344 – Craig’s Contradictory Christ – Part 2podcast 343 – Craig’s Contradictory Christ – Part 1“What John 1 Meant”a reading of Philippians 2:5-11podcast 264 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 2podcast 263 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 1podcast 323 – Did God die on the cross?podcast 333 – The Arguments of “God’s Death”podcast 146 – Jesus as an Exemplar of Faith in the New Testament“Jesus as an exemplar of faith in the New Testament”podcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!John 1:1-14; 2 Corinthians 5:19; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 12:2; Revelation 5:1-14; Romans 5:1-10; Hebrews 2:17; John 3:34; Philippians 2:6-10; 1 Corinthians 15:12-58; Colossians 1:18; Revelation 1:5; Isaiah 41:8; 1 Timothy 2:5; Hebrews 4:15; Hebrews 5:1-10; Matthew 10:29; Matthew 3:17; Matthew 17:5; Romans 1:18-32; Revelation 5:9; Ephesians 3:12; John 8:40; John 1:29.This week’s thinking music is “What’s on my Mind” by Ivan Chew.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "What's on my Mind" by Ivan Chew. ccmixter.org/files/ramblinglibrarian/38021
trinities 363 - Dr. Andrew Hollingsworth on “mere” social trinitarianism and eternal relati… khanpadawan 2023-04-13 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-363-dr-andrew-hollingsworth-on-mere-social-trinitarianism-and-eternal-relations-of-origin-part-2 In this episode we get into the depths of Dr. Hollingsworth’s new article “Mere Social Trinitarianism, the Eternal Relations of Origin, and Models of God.”Topics include:divine timelessnesscreation ex nihilothe divine processions (the Father’s eternal generation of the Son and spiration of the Spirit)the DERO’s lack of biblical supportwhy DERO entered into mainstream Christian traditiondivine aseityJohn 1 and Philo’s views about God’s Logos2nd century logos theoriststhe “Cappadocian fathers” on DERODr. Joshua Sijuwade‘s views on the processionssome reasons why it is problematic to combine divine temporality with DEROHasker vs. Mullins on processions and subordinationismcomparing and contrasting processions with creationdivine immutabilitydivine impassibilitydivine simplicityGod’s desire to be reconciled to his creaturesGod’s real relations to the cosmosdivine temporalitydivine simplicity & some of its absurd implicationshow simplicity implies the other “classical theism” divine attributeswhether a whole depends on its partshow God can have multiple properties and not in any undesirable way depend on themdivine attributes which are compatible or incompatible with Social trinitarianismthat Social trinitarianism is committed to one model of Godso-called “classical theism” vs. neoclassical theism (a.k.a. “theistic personalism”)why Dr. Hollingsworth believes in a Social trinitarian theologyAquinas’s claim that Jesus’s divine and human natures engage in one “theandric act”the influence of Platonism and Origen on mainstream catholic theologies in ancient timesthe practice of employing what one considers to be the best philosophical theories in the service of theologywhy a Protestant should not say that we can’t interpret the Bible without reliance on extrabiblical Christian traditionsLinks for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-363-dr-andrew-hollingsworth-on-mere-social-trinitarianism-and-eternal-relations-of-origin-part-2Dr. Andrew Hollingsworth @ Brewton-Parker CollegeDr. Hollingsworth @ Academia.eduDr. Thomas McCallWhich Trinity? Whose Monotheism? Philosophical and Systematic Theologians on the Metaphysics of Trinitarian Theology (review)OrigenPsalm 2:1-9; John 17:5; Exodus 3:14.This week’s thinking music is “bluenotes” by airtone.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy.
trinities 362 - Dr. Andrew Hollingsworth on mere social trinitarianism and eternal relations … khanpadawan 2023-04-04 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-362-dr-andrew-hollingsworth-on-mere-social-trinitarianism-and-eternal-relations-of-origin-part-1 In this episode we’ll meet analytic theologian Dr. Andrew Hollingsworth and discuss his interesting forthcoming article “Mere Social Trinitarianism, the Eternal Relations of Origin, and Models of God” in the Journal of Analytic Theology. Topics include: “mere” social trinitarianism – the core claims which any “social” trinitarian is committed to the concept of a self the idea that God has multiple first-person points of view why “social” trinitarianism has been popular recently among Christian philosophers and analytic theologians whether “social” trinitarianism is found in Christian history before the 20th century what “classical” trinitarianism was, in contrast to “social” trinitarianism in what sense a “Person” of the Trinity “is God” according to “social” trinitarians the concept of constitution in Trinity theories and how this relates to worries about tritheism Chad McIntosh’s 4-self Trinity theory William Lane Craig’s suggestion that a “social” trinitarian should insist there are two ways to be divine – one for God the Trinity and one for the divine Persons & his cat-parts analogy analytic theologian Keith Yandell’s social trinitarianism and tritheism objections Craig’s analogy for the Trinity as a soul with three complete sets of cognitive faculties and his Cerberus analogy, and how this relates to real-life human conjoined twins Dr. Jc Beall’s suggestion that the Incarnation and the Trinity should be understood as involving true (real) contradictions the seeming incoherence of the “Athanasian” creed the concept of God vs. models of God the Doctrine of the Eternal Relations of Origin (DERO) – i.e. a traditional trinitarian doctrine of “processions” the nature of these posited relations of origin – that they must be timeless and causal whether the divine essence which the Father shares, via these origin relations, with the Son and Spirit is a universal property or a particular property the medieval suggestion that the “Persons” of the Trinity are “subsistent relations” one-self Trinity theoriesIn Part 2 we’ll discuss the costs of combining social trinitarianism and DERO.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-362-dr-andrew-hollingsworth-on-mere-social-trinitarianism-and-eternal-relations-of-origin-part-1Dr. Andrew Hollingsworth @ Brewton-Parker CollegeDr. Hollingsworth @ Academia.eduWolfhart Pannenberg (1928-2014)Umberto EcoCharles Sanders PierceWhat is “analytic” theology?Dr. Hollingsworth’s review of Thomas H. McCall. Analytic Christology and the Theological Interpretation of the New TestamentTuggy, “Divine Deception and Monotheism”three self Trinity theoriesJohn Philoponus on the TrinityWilliam Sherlock on the TrinityScott Williams, “Discovery of the Sixth Ecumenical Council’s Trinitarian Theology: Historical, Ecclesial, and Theological Implications”podcast 28 – Interview with Dr. William Hasker about his Metaphysics and the Tripersonal God – Part 2podcast 27 – Interview with Dr. William Hasker about his Metaphysics and the Tripersonal God – Part 1podcast 300 – Does the New Testament teach Trinity Monotheism? – with Dale Glover – Part 2podcast 299 – Does the New Testament teach Trinity Monotheism? – with Dale Glover – Part 1podcast 297 – Assessing Craig’s “Trinity Monotheism” – with Dale Glover – Part 2podcast 296 – Assessing Craig’s “Trinity Monotheism” – with Dale Glover – Part 1the seven “ecumenical” councilsDr. Ryan Mullins on “the Trinity”Trinity as Incoherentpodcast 325 – Dr. Jc Beall – The Contradictory Christ – Part 2podcast 324 – Dr. Jc Beall – The Contradictory Christ – Part 1podcast 4 – Anglicans vs. “Athanasius”podcast 2 – the “Athanasian Creed”The Orthodox Formulas 2: The Council of Constantinople (381)one-self Trinity theoriesThis week’s thinking music is “roboduck” by airtone.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "roboduck" by airtone. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/airtone/66098
trinities 361 - A Lutheran pastor explains Socinianism and biblical unitarianism khanpadawan 2023-02-22 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-361-a-lutheran-pastor-explains-socinianism-and-biblical-unitarianism In this episode I interact with a video by Lutheran Pastor Joshua Sullivan at Holy Cross Lutheran Church in Kerrville, Texas. A listener asked him for his views on “Socinianism” and this so-called “biblical unitarianism,” and why they contradict the Bible.He replies with some descriptions and definitions, and then gives some arguments as to why these sorts of views are unbiblical.I interact with his video, agreeing, disagreeing, and adding a lot of information – historical, theological, and sociological.Topics include: “Socinians” and Socinus “Arians” “biblical unitarians” “unitarian Christians” Whether unitarian Christianity can be defined by a “rationalistic” methodological stance. Whether unitarian Christians think Jesus is in any sense “divine.” Traditional catholic views on generation and procession, and why most unitarian Christians don’t accept these – like some present-day trinitarians! unitarian views on atonement and salvation unitarian views on “the holy spirit” Characterizations of unitarian Christians as “deniers” of various things. How anti-Calvinistic today’s unitarians are 18th-19th British and American unitarian Christianity Traditional catholic appeals to “mystery” in the face of theological problems. So-called “classical theism” Various traditional catholic claims which are neither self-evident nor taught in Scripture, but which are widely assumed in trinitarian circles. How to prove an impossibility claim, e.g. it would be impossible for a non-divine Jesus to “fully” reveal God. Whether worshiping a non-divine Jesus is the sin of idolatry. 2 (literal) definitions of “idolatry” Whether Scripture teaches that it is wrong to worship anyone unless they are fully divine. The implications of Jesus’ exaltation to God’s right hand. Whether Jesus claims essential equality with the Father.Pastor Sullivan argues that if unitarian Christian views were true then: the Father wouldn’t be a real father and the Son wouldn’t be a real son the Son wouldn’t be the brightness of God’s glory or a true image of God God would have changed, so would not be essentially immutable the Son wouldn’t be able to “fully” reveal God Jesus couldn’t truly say that if you’ve seen him you’ve seen the Father Jesus would basically be like other prophets, and not in a class of his own Jesus would have been unable to do any miracles. Jesus could not truly be called our “savior.” It would be wrong for us to worship JesusI explain why, for various reasons, these are not powerful objections to the views of unitarian Christians.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-361-a-lutheran-pastor-explains-socinianism-and-biblical-unitarianismPastor Sullivan’s videoThe Racovian CatechismAn Interview With Dr. Dale Tuggy – by J. Dan GillBiblicalunitarian.compodcast 357 – Seminary student takes Trinity class, becomes unitarian – Part 2podcast 356 – Seminary student takes Trinity class, becomes unitarian – Part 1podcast 189 – The unfinished business of the ReformationThe Tuggy-Brown debate: Dale’s opening statementpodcast 358 – Baptist Justice: Samuel Eddy on Scripture, Church Discipline, and the TrinityClarifying Catholic Christologies – by Dr. Dale Tuggypodcast 235 – The Case Against PreexistenceDebate – “Is Jesus Human and not Divine?” – Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Chris Datepodcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!The aloneness argument against classical theismpodcast 227 – Who Should Christians Worship?podcast 167 – Lamson’s History of The Unitarian CongregationalistsBiblical Unitarian Podcast 204: An Introduction to the Theme of Misunderstanding in the Gospel of JohnBiblical Unitarian Podcast 211: Jesus’ Misunderstood Father (John 8)What John 1 meantpodcast 70 – The one God and his Son according to Johnpodcast 52 – John Locke’s The Reasonableness of Christianity, Part 1podcast 286 – Is the Trinity Essential? – Three ViewsWhat is essential to the gospel, according to Luke?John 17:1-3, 1 Corinthians 8:4-6; Ephesians4:4-6: John 10: John 20:17; John 5:23; Phil 2:10-11; Act 2:22; John 14:10; John 3:34; Malachi 3:6; Revelation 5; Exodus 20:4-6; Matthew 4:10; John 8:40; John 5:15-47.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "I dunno" by grapes. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/grapes/16626
trinities 360 - What is unitarian Christianity? khanpadawan 2023-01-31 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-360-what-is-unitarian-christianity This episode is a short interview of Dale Tuggy by Tyler Hummel for his podcast The AntiSocial Network. He asked questions which a lot of people have about unitarian Christianity, such as: What is unitarian Christianity? How does unitarian Christianity differ from the UU (Unitarian Universalism) religion? What is the Unitarian Christian Alliance? What are the core theses of any unitarian Christian theology? Why do some think that “unitarian Christian” is an oxymoron? How does unitarian Christianity relate to the Protestant Reformation? How far back does trinitarianism go back in the history of Christian theologies? What sort of people to unitarian Christians tend to be? Is “the doctrine of the Trinity” so popular now because it (or at least “the deity of Christ”) is taught in the Gospel according to John? What is “the canon within the canon” when it comes to traditional theologies? How can one say that Christ isn’t divine given that he’s risen from the dead, ascended to heaven, and has since appeared to or visited various people? Doesn’t the worship of Jesus we see in the New Testament presuppose that Jesus is God? Doesn’t the reaction of some of Jesus’ contemporaries show that he was claiming to be divine? Why is unitarian Christianity currently such a small minority view among Christians? Why were there a lot of unitarian Christians in early America (late 1700s – mid 1800s)? Why did 19th c. American Congretationalist unitarianism practically die out?For more on the historical development of mainstream Christian views about God, his Son, and his spirit, see these two episodes with Bill Schlegel.For more on the historical transition for the one God as the Father to the one God as the Trinity, see this interview of me by Carlos Xavier or the linked published paper.For more on the odd situation of “the doctrine of the Trinity” in Christianity today, check out this presentation “The Six Stages of Trinitarian Commitment.”For more on the Trinity and the Bible, here’s an interview by apologist and Philosopher-Theologian Dr. Randal Rauser.Links for this episode @trinities.org/blog/podcast-360-what-is-unitarian-christianityThe AntiSocial Network podcastHigher Ground ChurchChurch of God General ConferenceUnitarian Christian Alliance (FAQ)podcast 281 – Introducing the Unitarian Christian AllianceUnitarian Universalismpodcast 168 – The Death of Unitarian Congregationalismpodcast 167 – Lamson’s History of The Unitarian CongregationalistsRestitutio 439 The Stone-Campbell Restoration Movement (Eric Miller)podcast 309 – Channing’s “Unitarian Christianity” – Part 2podcast 308 – Channing’s “Unitarian Christianity” – Part 1What is the Trinity?What John 1 Meantpodcast 76 – Justin Martyr’s Dialogue with Trypho – Part 3podcast 75 – Justin Martyr’s Dialogue with Trypho – Part 2podcast 74 – Justin Martyr’s Dialogue with Trypho – Part 1podcast 11 – Tertullian the unitarianpodcast 270 – Origen’s “one God”Clarifying Catholic Christologiespodcast 335 – Pastor Jeff Deuble’s Christ Before Creedspodcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”A letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and Mepodcast 248 – How Trinity theories conflict with the BibleHow Trinity theories conflict with the New Testamentpodcast 70 – The one God and his Son according to JohnJesus’s argument in John 10The Biblical Unitarian Podcast 204: An Introduction to the Theme of Misunderstanding in the Gospel of Johnpodcast 235 – The Case Against PreexistenceWorship and Revelation 4-5podcast 227 – Who Should Christians Worship?Bock and Loke on Jesus’s “blasphemy” in Mark 14 – Part 1podcast 260 – How to Argue that the Bible is Trinitarianpodcast 226 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 3 – post-biblical uses of biblical words, and new wordspodcast 225 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 – Old “Lord” vs. New “Lord”podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Biblepodcast 164 – On Counting GodsThis week’s thinking music is “Into the J” by Admiral Bob.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy.
trinities 359 - Where We Stand khanpadawan 2023-01-23 | trinities.org/blog/episode-359-where-we-stand This episode is a slightly updated version of my opening address to the second annual Unitarian Christian Alliance Conference in October 2022.In it, I describe the Reformation context of today’s unitarian Christian movement. Increasingly, Christians are trading in traditional confusions for New Testament clarity when it comes to the one God and his Son.After briefly outlining a unitarian Christian theology and christology using the words of Scripture, I discuss what typically happens when trinitarians thus reform their thinking. Generally, they are in the market for a new church. I then explain how the UCA helps to network believers and fellowships using its website.I then briefly describe our 2022 Conference Partners: Church of God General Conference, Spirit and Truth, Living Hope International Ministries, Allegiance to the King, Williamsburg Christadelphian Foundation, Lord’s Harvest International, Compass Christian Church, Integrity Syndicate, TruthBorn, Christian Centered Counseling, Yahweh-TV, and the trinities podcast.Then I highlight the awesome efforts of two UCA Board members: these videos (and the one below) and the UCA Podcast.Finally, I mention some things which are coming up for the UCA and for me in 2023.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/episode-359-where-we-standHere’s a printable pdf of this talk “Where We Stand: 2022.”a survey of competing Trinity theoriespodcast 302 – The Stages of Trinitarian Commitmentpodcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformationpodcast 248 – How Trinity theories conflict with the BibleA letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and MeWhat John 1 MeantThe official UCA Twitter accountTheophilus PressLiving Hope International MinistriesChurch of God General ConferenceSpirit and TruthAllegiance to the KingWilliamsburg Christadelphian FoundationLord’s Harvest InternationalCompass Christian ChurchIntegrity SyndicateTruthBornChristian Centered CounselingYahweh TVHigher Ground ChurchThomas Emlyn, An Humble Inquiry into the Scripture-Account of Jesus ChristThomas Gaston, Dynamic Monarchianism: The Earliest Christology?Dale Tuggy, Monotheism, History, and Heresypodcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!Judges 12; John 15:15; Mark 12:30; Matthew 6:9; John 17:1-3; John 8:40; Acts 2:22; John 20:17; Revelation 3:12; Ephesians 1:17; Colossians 1:15; John 14:9; 1 Timothy 2:5; seen the f; 1 Timothy 2:5.This week’s thinking music is “High Above the Darkness (My Star)” by Admiral Bob. Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy.
trinities 358 - Baptist Justice: Samuel Eddy on Scripture, Church Discipline, and the Trinity khanpadawan 2022-12-21 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-358-baptist-justice-samuel-eddy-on-scripture-church-discipline-and-the-trinity Samuel Eddy (1768-1839) was at the height of his career Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the state of Rhode Island. He was also a prominent member of the First Baptist Church in Providence. Like others, he’d just assumed that the doctrine of the Trinity is both true and taught in the Bible. Yes, he’d heard talk of unitarians, but those aren’t Christians, right? So he never bothered to hear their side of the argument. He tells us that what finally caused him to investigate these matters were faulty arguments he encountered on the trinitarian side for the underived power and full deity of Christ.Not having read any unitarian literature, he decided, like a good Protestant, that the answer to these debates must be in Scripture, so he went through the whole New Testament and wrote out every text that was relevant to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He tells us that the “result was a full conviction that the Father was the only true God, and that Christ was not the Father, that is, that being whom Christ asserts to be the only true God.”In this episode you’ll hear a statement Eddy presented to the leadership committee of his church when they demanded an account of his theology, which later became a widely-read and often-reprinted tract called: Reasons Offered by Samuel Eddy, LL. D., Late Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Rhode Island, for His Opinions to the First Baptist Church in Providence, from which He was Compelled to Withdraw for Heterodoxy.On both theology and procedure, he confronts his Baptist brethren for choosing post-biblical traditions over clear biblical teachings. Eddy makes what are at first glance some radical claims about what the New Testament teaches. Are you persuaded? Why or why not?Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-358-baptist-justice-samuel-eddy-on-scripture-church-discipline-and-the-trinityThe text presented here is my modernized version of the 1855 reprint of Reasons Offered in this interesting book.The First Baptist Church in AmericaFirst Unitarian Church of ProvidenceSamuel Eddy @ wikipediaSamuel Eddy’s tombstone in Providencepodcast 357 – Seminary student takes Trinity class, becomes unitarian – Part 2podcast 356 – Seminary student takes Trinity class, becomes unitarian – Part 1podcast 191 – Ware’s Outline of the Testimony of Scripture Against the Trinitypodcast 309 – Channing’s “Unitarian Christianity” – Part 2podcast 308 – Channing’s “Unitarian Christianity” – Part 1podcast 201 – Kermit Zarley on Reformation – Part 2podcast 200 – Kermit Zarley on Reformation – Part 1podcast 349 – Craig-Tuggy dialogue on trinitarian vs. unitarian theologiespodcast 168 – The Death of Unitarian Congregationalismpodcast 167 – Lamson’s History of The Unitarian CongregationalistsLuke 4:16; 1 Peter 2:21; John 16:2; Acts 18:21, 24; Acts 11:3; Acts 1:5, 12, 21, 27; 1 Corinthians 15:12, 34; 1 Corinthians 1:2, 6, 11, 15, 34; Acts 8:37; Romans 10:9, 14; Romans 4:17-18; Philippians 3:15-16; Romans 15:7; 1 Corinthians 7:19; Ephesians 5:20; Colossians 3:16-17; Hebrews 13:15; John 18:37; 2 Timothy 1:10; John 17:3; Acts 19:2; Matthew 3:11; Acts 24:14, 18, 13; John 17:3; 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; Luke 10:21, 23, 46; John 20:17; Matthew 27:4; Mark 9:36; Mark 12:29, 32; John 5:18-19, 30; John 10:30, 36; Mark 12:32; Mark 10:18; 1 Corinthians 8:4, 6; Ephesians 4:5-6; Ephesians 1:17; 1 Corinthians 11:3; 1 Corinthians 3:23; Romans 6:10; 2 Corinthians 13:4; John 6:57; 1 Corinthians 15:28; 1 Timothy 6:15-16; Jude 4; Acts 4:24, 26-27; Acts 17:24, 29; Luke 10:21; Mark 13:19; Isaiah 44:24; Isaiah 44:12; 1 John 5:20; Hebrews 1:2, 4 ,6 ,9; Hebrews 2:9, 17; Colossians 1:15, 19; John 1:18; John 4:10; Matthew 16:16; Revelation 3:4; Acts 2:36; Acts 5:31; Acts 17:31; Ephesians 1:22; Philippians 2:9; Jude 4; 1 Timothy 6:15-16; 1 John 2:22-23; Matthew 9:8; John 20:23; Exodus 23:20-21; Luke 5:17; Luke 2:40; Acts 2:22; Acts 10:38; Matthew 12:28; Luke 21:20; John 14:10; Matthew 6:6, 9; John 16:23; John 4:22, 24.This week’s thinking music is “Bluenotation” by Ezra Skull. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/Haskel/64588Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy.
trinities 357 - Seminary student takes Trinity class, becomes unitarian - Part 2 khanpadawan 2022-11-14 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-357-seminary-student-takes-trinity-class-becomes-unitarian-part-2 There are no verses that define God as being Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There are no verses that define God as three, three in one, or a multiple. There are no verses that say that Jesus has two natures or two minds. There are no verses that say Jesus is a God-man, or that he is fully God and fully man. There are no verses that call Jesus “eternally begotten,” the bible says he was begotten or “born” by Mary. Why Biblical Unitarianism? @ biblicalunitarian.comIn this second half of my wide-ranging conversation with recent seminary graduate Johnny Barnes, we discuss: further advice for Christians re-thinking the issue of the Bible and “the Trinity” the importance of what is NOT in the New Testament for deciding whether these authors are trinitarian or unitarian “the Holy Spirit” in the New Testament why Jesus is to be honored or worshiped according to the New Testament systematic theologians’ desire to “go beyond the basics” of the Trinity “the deity of Christ” vs. theories that God is the Trinity how to get around fruitless proof-text wars and the cheap accusation that unitarian Christians merely “assume unitarianism” the shallow and misleading way that many today teach the early history of Christian theologies and christologies the REV Bible why literal isn’t always best when it comes to translation advice for and a challenge to seminary studentsThanks to Johnny Barnes for a good conversation!Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-357-seminary-student-takes-trinity-class-becomes-unitarian-part-2John 17:5; John 17:1-3; John 5:44; Philippians 2:11; Revelation 5:9-14; Acts 5:3, John 1:18 (REV commentary); Matthew 1:18; Matthew 1:20; Colossians 1:15.Spirit & Truththe REV Biblebiblicalunitarian.com“the only true President” of the USA, another laughable Fox News blunderReading comprehension quiz: Johann 17:1-3the NET BibleThe Tuggy-Brown debate: Dale’s opening statementa reading of Philippians 2:5-11Katherine SondereggerEvolution of the Trinity – with Bill SchlegelThe Lost Early History of Unitarian Christian Theologypodcast 348 – Novatian’s On the Trinity – Part 2 – Two Thieves and Three Argumentspodcast 347 – Novatian’s On the Trinity – Part 1 – Almost PopeWhy you can ignore “Sharp’s Rule”podcast 176 – Photinus of Sirmiumpodcast 26 – Pastor Sean Finnegan on “the Holy Spirit” – Part 2podcast 25 – Pastor Sean Finnegan on “the Holy Spirit” – Part 1This week’s thinking music is “La Bella” by Mr. Smith.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "La Bella" by Mr. Smith. freemusicarchive.org/music/mr-smith/guitarista/la-bella
trinities 356 - Seminary student takes Trinity class, becomes unitarian - Part 1 khanpadawan 2022-11-09 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-356-seminary-student-takes-trinity-class-becomes-unitarian-part-1 Johnny Barnes earned a Master of Arts in Theological Studies from Dallas Theological Seminary. When he took the required class on the Trinity, he couldn’t help but notice that many of the texts appealed to in order to support the Trinity were problematic in various ways. And he did not see anyone in Scripture appealing to “mystery” to attempt to deal with problems of coherence.Finding out online that there are biblical unitarian Christians, he decided to look into these issues, and he became convinced that New Testament theology is unitarian and not trinitarian, in other words, that it teaches the one God to be the Father himself, not a three-and-one or tripersonal deity which is never mentioned. . . . if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9 (NET Bible)In this first half of our conversation we discuss Mr. Barnes’s spiritual background, his time at Dallas Theological Seminary, his experience in their required Trinity class, problems for “two-natures” theories about Jesus, how present-day seminary education virtually ignores unitarian Christianity and seems uninterested in hearing both sides of the argument, clashing evangelical views on whether or not one must believe in the Trinity to be saved, the reactions of his friends to his change of mind, the reaction of DTS to his change of mind, various unitarian people and sources he found helpful as he was deliberating, and what he is doing now.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-356-seminary-student-takes-trinity-class-becomes-unitarian-part-1Three recent whistleblowersRTS DallasDallas Theological SeminaryREV note on John 1:18Kegan ChandlerChaldler, “Unorthodox Christology in General Baptist History: The Legacy of Matthew Caffyn““Negative Mysterianism” about the TrinityEutychianismthe Council of Chalcedonpodcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!Debate – Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Dr. Michael Brownbiblicalunitarian.comSpirit and TruthREV BibleChanning vs. Stuart on the Trinity and the Incarnationpodcast 191 – Ware’s Outline of the Testimony of Scripture Against the TrinityWhat is essential to the gospel, according to Luke?Proverbs 18:17Sean FinneganRestitutio podcastJerry WierwilleDale Tuggy – What John 1 Meant (UCA Conference 2021)The Lost Early History of Unitarian Christian Theology – by Dr. Dale Tuggypodcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformationpodcast 252 – Fred Sanders on Seeing the Trinity in Scripture, and his Secretpodcast 63 – Thomas Belsham and other scholars on John 8:58What is the Trinity?podcast 260 – How to Argue that the Bible is TrinitarianDeuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 45:22; Romans 10:9podcast 286 – Is the Trinity Essential? – Three Viewspodcast 2 – the “Athanasian Creed”Samuel ClarkeGregory of Nazianzus on the Three and the OnetransubstantiationThis week's thinking music is "Slider" by Mr. Smith. freemusicarchive.org/music/mr-smith/streamliner/slider
trinities 355 - Dr. Steven Nemes on Trinity theories - Part 2 khanpadawan 2022-09-26 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-355-dr-steven-nemes-on-trinity-theories-part-2 In this second half of our wide-ranging conversation inspired by his epic tweet thread on Trinity theories, our topics include: the “Persons” of the Trinity as modes, the New Testament authors as “primitive” theologians, divine simplicity, “social” Trinity theories, divine processions or lack thereof, mythological tales about what the three Persons before creation, the misfit between Scriptural language and trinitarian language, what I call “the problem of the missing Amigo,” standards of intellectual rigor in theology, “the Trinity” as a shibboleth, the recent idea that to show his solidarity with us God himself died on the cross for us, the traditional idea of divine impassibility, mysterian defenses of trinitarian traditions, how we could know what exactly it is that The Tradition demands about “the Trinity,” how Trinity theories relate to religious freedom, Roman Catholics’ relatively recent embrace of religious freedom and tolerance, why Dr. Nemes considers himself to be a post-catholic theologian, religious minorities in traditionally Eastern Orthodox countries like Romania and Russia, God’s allowing theological and practical errors within mainstream Christianity, how we should view the “ecumenical creeds,” how “consensus” was reached at the end of the “Arian” controversy, converts to Catholicism and Orthodoxy, Dr. Nemes’ view that Trinity theories should be viewed as tolerable opinions but not dogma, paradigm shifts, the value of reason and reasonable arguments in theology, odium theologicum, and apologetics as trash-talking the “heretics.”Thanks to Dr. Nemes for a good conversation!Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-355-dr-steven-nemes-on-trinity-theories-part-2image: 9th c. image of the emperor Constantine having “Arian” books burned (credit)Dr. Nemes’s websiteDr. Nemes @ TwitterDr. Nemes’s Tweet thread which inspired this conversation.Barth & Rahner on the Trinitydivine simplicityClassical Theism: Is God Personal Like Us? Ryan Mullins + Steven Nemespodcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!podcast 31 – Dr. William Hasker on the “Arian” Controversypodcast 22 – a cure for odium theologicumpodcast 271 – Does your Trinity theory require relative identity?“There is no salvation outside the Church.”10 steps towards getting less confused about the Trinity – #6 get a date – part 2Wolfhart Pannenbergpodcast 248 – How Trinity theories conflict with the BibleHow Trinity theories conflict with the New Testamentthe evolution of my views on the TrinityJames 3:13-18Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "La Bella" by Mr. Smith. freemusicarchive.org/music/mr-smith/guitarista/la-bella
trinities 354 - Dr. Steven Nemes on Trinity theories - Part 1 khanpadawan 2022-09-20 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-354-dr-steven-nemes-on-trinity-theories-part-1 Twitter is my favorite social media site. I enjoy short social media posts, and series of short posts. It’s a good place for the opinionated to hold forth briefly. As they say, brevity is the soul of wit.Recently I noticed an interesting and insightful thread, a series of tweets, on “the doctrine of the Trinity” by analytic theologian Dr. Steven Nemes. I thought, “This is worth a conversation!”In this and the next episode, you’ll hear that conversation. Dr. Nemes and I do, in the course of our conversation, deviate from the subject of Trinity theories. In this episode you’ll also hear about the relationship between God and the cosmos, appeals to “mystery,” “the doctrine of the Trinity” as a shibboleth, claims that there is no good anology for the Trinity, why Dr. Nemes is not opposed to “the doctrine of the Trinity” but is opposed to its being mandatory, and his general approach to Christian theologies.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-354-dr-steven-nemes-on-trinity-theories-part-1Dr. Nemes’s websiteDr. Nemes @ TwitterDr. Nemes’s Tweet thread which inspired this and the next episode.“Words of Life” with Dr. Steven Nemes @ YouTubeThe Reluctant Theologian Episode 80: The Phenomenology of Scripture with Steven NemesWilliam Vallicella, A Paradigm Theory of Existence: Onto-Theology Vindicatedpodcast 84 – Dr. William Vallicella on Existence and Godpodcast 83 – The Spiritual Journey of a Maverick PhilosopherMoltmann, The Crucified GodUlrich Zwingli, a.k.a. Huldrych Zwingli (1484 –1531)Adolf von Harnack (1851–1930)Michel Henry (1922–2002)podcast 31 – Dr. William Hasker on the “Arian” Controversypodcast 30 – The Council of Niceapodcast 29 – Ariuspodcast 28 – Interview with Dr. William Hasker about his Metaphysics and the Tripersonal God – Part 2podcast 27 – Interview with Dr. William Hasker about his Metaphysics and the Tripersonal God – Part 1The Standard Opening MoveAugustine, On the Trinity (@SEP)John of Damascus (c. 676–749)Karl Barth (1886–1968)When and How in the History of Theology Did the Triune God Replace the Father as the Only True God?Vladimir Latinovic, “Arius Conservativus? The Question of Arius’ Theological Belonging“Mark Edwards, Catholicity and Heresy in the Early Churchshibolethpodcast 232 – Trinity Club OrientationRobert Sokolowski, The God of Faith and Reason: Foundations of Christian TheologypanentheismoccasionalismFeser, “David Bentley Hart’s Post-Christian Pantheism“podcast 349 – Craig-Tuggy dialogue on trinitarian vs. unitarian theologiesPeter van Inwagen and Michael Rea on the TrinityBerengar of Tours, a.k.a. Berengarius Turonensis (d. 1088)Lanfranc of Bec (d. 1089)Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Jonah's Message for New York" by Dr. Turtle. freemusicarchive.org/music/Doctor_Turtle/Jonahs_Message_for_New_York
trinities 353 - Should Christians Accept the Trinity? khanpadawan 2022-08-17 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-353-should-christians-accept-the-trinity In this episode theologian Dr. Randal Rauser interviews me for his YouTube channel (original video below), asking good and tough questions. He inquires about my theological views and how I came to them, and why I think Christians who accept the authority of the New Testament should re-examine their assumptions about traditional triune-God speculations. We discuss the true humanity of Jesus, his being called “God” in a few New Testament passages, common arguments that some Trinity theory is implied by Scripture, the pattern of worship we see in the New Testament, how becoming unitarian in my theology has impacted my own spiritual life, Jesus’ faith in God, the concept of heresy, saving faith, ongoing reformation, historical unitarian Christians, “mystery” defenses of problematic dogmas, the implosion of 19th c. American unitarianism, and a providential argument that some sort of Trinity theory must be true.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-353-should-christians-accept-the-trinityDr. Rauser’s YouTube channelDr. Rauser’s blogWhat is the Trinity?Is Jesus Human and Not Divine?the evolution of my views on the Trinity“Trinity,” Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophypodcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformationpodcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”podcast 191 – Ware’s Outline of the Testimony of Scripture Against the TrinityThe Tuggy-Brown debate: Dale’s opening statementWilliams, The Radical ReformationHarris, Jesus as Godpodcast 167 – Lamson’s History of The Unitarian Congregationalistspodcast 168 – The Death of Unitarian Congregationalismpodcast 144 – Dr. Timothy Pawl’s In Defense of Conciliar Christology – Part 2podcast 143 – Dr. Timothy Pawl’s In Defense of Conciliar Christology – Part 1podcast 270 – Origen’s “one God”podcast 26 – Pastor Sean Finnegan on “the Holy Spirit” – Part 2podcast 25 – Pastor Sean Finnegan on “the Holy Spirit” – Part 1podcast 108 – Dr. Robert M. Bowman Jr. on triadic New Testament passages – part 2podcast 107 – Dr. Robert M. Bowman Jr. on triadic New Testament passages – part 1podcast 260 – How to Argue that the Bible is Trinitarianpodcast 227 – Who Should Christians Worship?podcast 176 – Photinus of SirmiumJohn Biddle’s unitarian confession of the Holy Trinitypodcast 286 – Is the Trinity Essential? – Three Viewspodcast 85 – Heretic! Four Approaches to Dropping H-Bombspodcast 53 – John Locke’s The Reasonableness of Christianity, Part 2podcast 52 – John Locke’s The Reasonableness of Christianity, Part 1podcast 146 – Jesus as an Exemplar of Faith in the New Testamentpodcast 148 – Dr. Daniel McKaughan on faith – Part 2podcast 147 – Dr. Daniel McKaughan on faith – Part 1Higher Ground ChurchChurch of God General ConferenceChristian Disciples ChurchLiving Hope International MinistriesCompass Christian ChurchUnitarian Christian AllianceRestitutio Interview 31: Master’s University Prof. Finds Son of God, Loses Job (Bill Schlegel)podcast 309 – Channing’s “Unitarian Christianity” – Part 2podcast 308 – Channing’s “Unitarian Christianity” – Part 1Matthew 28:19-20; Ephesians 4:4-6; 1 John 5:7-8 (Wallace, "The Textual Problem in 1 John 5:7-8"); Hebrews 1:8-9; John 10:22-39; Phil 2:5-11; Revelation 4; Revelation 5; John 16:13; Acts 2; Acts 3:13; Acts 5:30; Acts 24:14; John 8:40; John 20:30-31; Mathew 16:16; Luke 4:14-30; 2 Corinthians 5:19; John 14:10.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "ukeSounds" by airtone. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/airtone/32655
trinities 352 - Kegan Chandler - Jesus Messianic Self-Awareness and Early High Christology khanpadawan 2022-08-01 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-352-kegan-chandler-jesus-messianic-self-awareness-and-early-high-christology In this presentation from the 2021 Unitarian Christian Alliance Conference Kegan Chandler examines the work of “Early High Christology Club” members Dr. Michael Bird, Dr. N.T. Wright, and Dr. Larry Hurtado about what we can say, based on historical evidence, about Jesus’ understanding of himself.Chandler finds their proposals wanting. They are intended to be orthodox, or at least somehow to point in that direction, but it is not clear that they succeed, and their intelligible content, gleaned from the gospels, is what biblical unitarian Christians say: that Jesus understood himself to be a Jewish man who was the prophet and unique Messiah of the one true God, the God of Israel, the Creator. “Are you the only stranger in Jerusalem who does not know the things that have taken place there in these days? . . . The things about Jesus of Nazareth, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people . . .” Luke 25:18-19Dr. Bird and Dr. Wright: the ball’s on your side of the court . . .If you want to see his slides, here is the original video from the UCA YouTube channel.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-352-kegan-chandler-jesus-messianic-self-awareness-and-early-high-christologyChandler’s blog Buried DeepChandler @ academia.eduConstantine and the Divine Mind: The Imperial Quest for Primitive MonotheismThe God of Jesus in Light of Christian Dogmapodcast 247 – Kegan Chandler on the term “homoousios”Chandler @ the Restitutio podcastUnitarian Christian AllianceLarry Hurtado @ trinitiespodcast 281 – Introducing the Unitarian Christian Alliancepodcast 341 – Reflections on my debate with Dr. Andrew Lokepodcast 340 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 2podcast 339 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 1podcast 338 – What John 1 Meantpodcast 332 – Emlyn’s Humble Inquirypodcast 323 – Did God die on the cross?podcast 264 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 2podcast 263 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 1Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "lostTrack" by airtone. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/airtone/64772
trinities 351 - Thoughts on my Dialogue with Craig on the Trinity and the Bible - Part 2 khanpadawan 2022-07-28 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-351-thoughts-on-my-dialogue-with-craig-on-the-trinity-and-the-bible-part-2 In this second part of my post-dialogue thoughts, I address in depth Dr. Craig’s “deity of Christ” proof-texts, as well as his appeal to “Sharp’s Rule” in relation to Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1. Does this alleged rule of Greek grammar to show that the authors there assert “the deity of Christ”?With some help from previous unitarian scholars, I show why it is pointless to argue against a unitarian using that alleged rule, and I also point out that Dr. Craig ought not assert Sharp’s rule, as the point of it is to read those passages as collapsing together Jesus and God – which Dr. Craig and I agree is a huge mistake.I also fess up to some historical mistakes I made about these texts regarding Tertullian, Origen, and generally how pre-Nicene authors did and didn’t use these texts. I go looking for early references to 2 Peter 1:1 and Titus 2:13, and what I find is both surprising and revealing!Finally, I review the many facts I pointed out in our dialogue which together constitute strong evidence against thinking that the New Testament authors are trinitarians – facts that Dr. Craig did not address. These are facts which no student of Scripture should ignore.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-351-thoughts-on-my-dialogue-with-craig-on-the-trinity-and-the-bible-part-2Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1; John 10:34-36; John 1:18; John 1:1; Hebrews 1:8-9; Psalm 45:6-7; 1 John 5:20; 2 Peter 1:1; Matthew 16:18; Philippians 2:11; John 20:30-31; Matthew 16:15-16; Titus 1:4; Titus 2:14; 2 Peter 1:2; 2 Peter 1:17; Revelation 1:17.podcast 350 – Thoughts on my Dialogue with Craig on the Trinity and the Bible – Part 1podcast 349 – Craig-Tuggy dialogue on trinitarian vs. unitarian theologiesHarris, Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to JesusBeDuhn, Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias in English Translations of the New Testamentpodcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformationpodcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”podcast 227 – Who Should Christians Worship?podcast 263 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 1podcast 264 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 2podcast 344 – Craig’s Contradictory Christ – Part 2podcast 343 – Craig’s Contradictory Christ – Part 1podcast 253 – The Apostle Paul a UnitarianNorton, A statement for reasons for not believing the doctrines of Trinitarians, concerning the nature of God and the person of Christ (free pdf)Middleton, The Doctrine of the Greek Article Applied to the Criticism and Illustration of the New TestamentOn not Confusing Together Jesus and Godpodcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!podcast 124 – a challenge to “Jesus is God” apologistsWeekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week’s thinking music is “Retrofuturistic Space Atrium” by Jesse Spillane. freemusicarchive.org/music/Jesse_Spillane/diversion/retrofuturistic-space-atrium
trinities 350 - Thoughts on my Dialogue with Craig on the Trinity and the Bible - Part 1 khanpadawan 2022-07-19 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-350-thoughts-on-my-dialogue-with-craig-on-the-trinity-and-the-bible-part-1 My recent one-hour dialogue with Dr. William Lane Craig featured a number of interesting exchanges, as well as what I believe is Dr. Craig’s first publicly distinguishing between a creedal Trinity doctrine (which he doesn’t defend) and what he calls a minimal and biblical Trinity doctrine (which he does defend).In this podcast, I reflect on the discussion, and even try to “steel man” Dr. Craig’s definition of a minimal and biblical Trinity doctrine. He distinguishes such a theory from his Trinity monotheism (one soul with three cognitive faculties) and from a full-blown creedal Trinity doctrine.One way to develop his minimal “tripersonal theism” is this collection of claims: 1 The Father is a self who is a proper part of God. 2 The Son is a self who is a proper part of God. 3 The Holy Spirit is a self is a self who is a proper part of God. 4 The Father is not the Son. (Or: The Father is not the same person as the Son.) 5 The Son is not the Holy Spirit. (Or: The Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit.) 6 The Father is not the Holy Spirit. (Or: The Father is not the same person as the Holy Spirit. 7 There is only one God.That’s one try; but it seems to me that it can’t be what Dr. Craig wants. So I consider another version of 1-3: 1 The Father is a self who is divine in a greater way than any angel or mere human but in a lesser way than God. 2 The Son is a self who is divine in a greater way than any angel or mere human but in a lesser way than God. 3 The Holy Spirit is a self who is divine in a greater way than any angel or mere human but in a lesser way than God.About his more elaborate “Trinity monotheism” (the Trinity is one soul which has three cognitive faculties, and therefore “is” three selves), I argue that these speculations suffer from unintelligibility and incoherence.I also discuss an argument which it seems to me is governing how Dr. Craig sees God-statements in the New Testament: 1 Any application of the term “God” to someone in the New Testament which is not a case of direct address to him is either predicative (i.e. describing him as divine in some sense) or identifying (i.e. identifying him with God), but not both. (premise) 2 All such predicative or identifying statements about the Father and the Son are true. (premise) 3 In the New Testament the Son and the Father are sometimes called “God” in the same sense. (premise) 4 If that same sense were identifying, then the Son and the Father would each be identical to the one God. (2) 5 If the Son and the Father were each identical with the one God, then the Son and the Father would be identical with one another. (premise) 6 But it is false that the Son and the Father are identical with one another. (premise) 7 Therefore, whenever any New Testament author says that the Father or the Son “is God,” he must be predicating divinity of him (i.e. describing him as in some sense divine). (1-6) 8 Therefore, no New Testament author ever applies the word “God” to the Father or to the Son in order to identify him with God. (1,7)While the argument isn’t obviously unsound, neither is it obviously sound. We need to be given reasons for thinking premises 1 and 3 are true.Finally, I argue against Dr. Craig’s claim that ancient people can no concept of identity, and so could not, for instance, have been identifying the Father with the one God.In part 2 I’ll get more into Dr. Craig’s biblical objections to my own unitarian Christian theology and christology.Links for this episode trinities.org/blog/podcast-350-thoughts-on-my-dialogue-with-craig-on-the-trinity-and-the-bible-part-1Philosophical Foundations for a Christian WorldviewRestitutio podcastpodcast 232 – Trinity Club Orientationan incoherent Trinity theorypodcast 260 – How to Argue that the Bible is Trinitarianrelative identity Trinity theoriesDr. Fred Sanders’s Study of Edition of Warfield’s “Trinity”Origen’s Commentary on JohnGod and his Son: the logic of the New TestamentJohn 17:1-3; John 20:17This week’s thinking music is “Retrofuturistic Space Atrium” by Jesse Spillane.
trinities 349 - Craig-Tuggy dialogue on trinitarian vs. unitarian theologies khanpadawan 2022-07-13 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-349-craig-tuggy-dialogue-on-trinitarian-vs-unitarian-theologies On July 11, 2022 I had the privilege of dialoguing for about an hour with Dr. William Lane Craig on Jordan Hampton’s Analytic Christian YouTube channel. Our official topics were (1) Dr. Craig’s Trinity theory and my objections to it, and (2) my unitarian Christian view of the one God, and Dr. Craig’s objections thereto. In this short but spirited exchange, I lodge biblical and philosophical objection to his Trinity theory, and he urges that my views are refuted by rather obvious deity of Christ texts.Topics include: What Dr. Craig calls “the biblical doctrine of the Trinity” as opposed to later and more complicated, creedal Trinity theories (he only wants to defend the former) Dr. Craig’s own model of “the Trinity,” which he now calls “tripersonal theism” God as “soul” with three sets of cognitive faculties – and Dr. Craig’s claim that this one soul clearly makes the view monotheistic. The “Persons” of the Trinity as selves and God/the Trinity as not a self. Dr. Craig’s claim that despite not being a self God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent – which I object entail being a self, and his reply that a being with those qualities need only be “personal.” His claim that the biblical authors are trinitarians and my objection that it is then baffling why there are no trinitarians in church history from Justin to Eusebius! And my objection that this shows that the NT books do not obviously imply the full deity of Christ, contrary to his assertions. My objection that one soul with three cognitive faculties each sufficient for personhood would be a single self over-determined to be so, not three persons. Whether Dr. Craig’s theology requires the “Persons” of the Trinity to be proper parts of it. Why Dr. Craig calls God the Trinity “he/him” and not “them” or “it” despite his denial that God the Trinity is a self/person. My observation that there seemingly were no controversies in the New Testament era about whether or not God is multipersonal – which seems to be good evidence that the early Christians were not implying any such claims. How the New Testament authors portray Jesus as having limits that a divine Person would not have – without embarrassment, warning, qualification, or explanation, e.g. limited knowledge, mortality, being a mediator. My claim that the NT authors never assert or assume or imply that Christ is the one true God and Dr. Craig’s claim that a few passages do imply or even state that. My observation that his Persons must be substances, i.e. individual entities, and his doubts about that. That in the New Testament writings lack any word or phrase which was then understood to refer to a tripersonal god, which seems strong evidence that these authors did not believe in a tripersonal God. My objection that God did not, in the first century, reveal himself as a Trinity – as evidenced by no one believing it then. Dr. Craig’s objection to my understanding of New Testament theology that ancient people did con have the concept of numerical identity. Dr. Craig’s claim that any unitarian will be driven to “extreme views” about the meaning of scriptural texts. Dr. Craig’s claim that New Testament authors never identify How a Logos-theory reading of John 1 is not consistent with trinitarianismIn the next episode I’ll share some reflections on the discussion and even give a few corrections.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-349-craig-tuggy-dialogue-on-trinitarian-vs-unitarian-theologiesthe original videohis Trinity playlistDr. Craig’s ministry Reasonable FaithGod and his Son: the logic of the New Testamentpodcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformationpodcast 70 – The one God and his Son according to JohnWhat John 1 Meantpodcast 248 – How Trinity theories conflict with the Biblepodcast 302 – The Stages of Trinitarian CommitmentOn Numerical Sameness / Identity / “Absolute” Identitya reading of Philippians 2:5-11“There you go again.”podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the BiblePassages discussed in this episode: John 10:34-36; Philippians 2:5-11; John 17:1-3; Revelation 4-5; 1 John 5:20; John 20:17; John 20:31-32; John 1:1-18; Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1; Hebrews 1:8-9; Psalm 45.This week’s thinking music is “Green Monster” by Jesse Spillane.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Green Monster" by Jesse Spillane. freemusicarchive.org/music/Jesse_Spillane/Sky_Ship/Jesse_Spillane_-_Sky_Ship_-_03_Green_Monster
trinities 348 - Novatians On the Trinity - Part 2 - Two Thieves and Three Arguments khanpadawan 2022-05-19 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-348-novatians-on-the-trinity-part-2-two-thieves-and-three-argumentsIn chapter 30, Novatian relates three arguments of his opponents, arguments from mainstream Christians who rejected the then-new logos speculations. These are what modern historians call Modalistic Monarchians and Dynamic Monarchians.My analyses of these arguments are as follows:The first, “direct” Modalistic Monarchian argument 1 There is exactly one god. [That is: there is a god, and anything which is a god just is that aforementioned one.] (premise) 2 Christ is a god. (premise) 3 [The Father is a god. (premise)] 4 Therefore, Christ just is the Father (and vice-versa). (1-3) [In other words: Christ and the Father are numerically one.]This argument is valid. But, is it sound? The second, “indirect” Modalistic Monarchian argument 1 Christ and the Father are numerically distinct. (Assumption to be refuted) 2 Christ is a god. (premise) 3 The Father is a god. (premise) 4 [For any x and any y, and any kind-term F, x and y are the same F only if x just is y (and vice-versa).] [In other words: being the same thing of some king implies being numerically the same.] OR 4. For any x and any y, x and y are the same god only if x and y are numerically identical. (premise) 5 Therefore, Christ and the Father are not the same god. (1,4) 6 Therefore, there are at least two gods. (2,3,5) 7 Therefore, it is false that there is only one god. (6) 8 There is only one god. (premise) 9 Therefore, it is not the case that Christ and the Father are numerically distinct. (1-8) 10 Therefore, Christ just is the Father (and vice-versa). [That is: Christ and the Father are numerically identical.]A quotation and translation of Novatian’s On the Trinity in Samuel Clarke’s The Scripture-Doctrine of the Trinity, first published in 1712.Again, the argument seems valid, and so either we must deny at least one premise (showing the argument to be unsound), or accept the conclusion (so that the argument is sound).The third argument comes from a very different brand of “Monarchian” Christians: what historians call the “Dynamic Monarchians,” or in present-day terms, biblical unitarians. These are mainstream Christians who rejected speculations that Christ had “two natures,” human and divine. Instead, they insisted, with Peter, that Jesus is “a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him” (Acts 2:22, NIV).The Dynamic Monarchian argument 1 Christ is a god. (Assumption to be refuted) 2 The Father is a god. (premise) 3 Christ and the Father are numerically distinct. (premise) 4 [For any x and any y, and any kind-term F, x and y are the same F only if x just is y (and vice-versa).] [In other words: being the same thing of some king implies being numerically the same.] OR 4. For any x and any y, x and y are the same god only if x and y are numerically identical. (premise) 5 Therefore, Christ and the Father are not the same god. (3,4) 6 Therefore, there are at least two gods. (1,2,5) 7 Therefore, it is false that there is only one god. (6) 8 There is only one god. (premise) 9 Therefore, it is false that Christ is a god. (1-8) 10 Therefore, Christ is not a god. (9) Again, the argument seems to be valid. What will Novatian do? After all, he seems committed to the truth of each of the four premises (2, 3, 4, 8)! So if the argument really is valid, he will thereby already be committed to the truth of the conclusion, step 10.In trying to diagnose where these “heretics” go wrong, Novatian discusses what I’ll call:The Lord/Master/Good argument 1 There is only one F – call it a. 2 There is some b which is numerically distinct from a, and b is rightly called “F.” 3 Therefore, there are at least two Fs.Novatian’s point is that an argument like this is invalid – that 3 doesn’t follow from 1 and 2. And surely he is right about that. But none of the Monarchian arguments just surveyed seems to rely on any such crude mistake, e.g. on confusing being a god with being called “God” or “a god.” When those arguments mention the claim that “Christ is a god” they mean this in the sense in which logos theorists like Novatian mean it. And clearly, Novatian and company do not mean only to say that the word deus can be applied to Christ!At the end of the day, Novatian’s responses to these first three Monarchian arguments are clear enough. Moreover, in my view, he is clearly correct about all three of them! Do you agree? Why or why not?Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-348-novatians-on-the-trinity-part-2-two-thieves-and-three-arguments This week's thinking music is "initial bridge" by Koi-discovery. freemusicarchive.org/music/koi-discovery/gaz-mask/initial-bridge
trinities 347 - Novatians On the Trinity - Part 1 - Almost Pope khanpadawan 2022-05-09 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-347-novatians-on-the-trinity-part-1-almost-pope Novatian was executed by the Roman government in 258. This ended an interesting career.After an emergency baptism when he was sick, Novatian became a priest and a leading theologian at Rome. He wrote his book The Trinity as a sort of commentary on traditional Roman baptismal creed, in order to help laypeople steer around docetic, Modalistic Monarchian, and Dynamic Monarchian christologies.In this episode I discuss the various reactions of Christians to the order of the emperor in 249 to either sacrifice or be executed, and then I explain how Novatian became the leader of a faction of churches in Rome which would not re-admit the “lapsed.” He might have become the bishop of Rome, but later people have sometimes called him an “anti-pope.”I then summarize his book and the rival theologies to his own brand of 3rd c. logos speculations, and I speculate myself about why he doesn’t use the word trinitas in the book. Finally, since Novatian urges throughout this book that clearly the Son is Deus, I ask what such “Jesus is God” statements mean.This sets the stage for the next episode, where we dig in to the last two chapters of his book, where he engages with some clear Modalistic Monarchian and Dynamic Monarchian arguments and explains why his own logos theory approach is monotheistic and not polytheistic.Links for this episode trinities.org/blog/podcast-347-novatians-on-the-trinity-part-1-almost-pope Papandrea, Novatian of Rome and the Culmination of Pre-Nicene OrthodoxyEmperor Decius, who initiated the Empire-wide persecution of Christians in 249.Novatian, The Trinity, The Spectacles, Jewish Foods, In Praise of Purity, LettersThe Treatise of Novatian on the TrinityRives, “The Decree of Decius and the Religion of Empire“Emperor Deciuspodcast 270 – Origen’s “one God”podcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”podcast 12 – the Apostles’ Creedpodcast 316 – Review of Papandrea, Trinity 101: Father, Son, Holy Spiritpodcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Biblepodcast 259 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 2podcast 258 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 1This week’s thinking music is the track “Retrospective” by Koi-discovery.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is the track "Retrospective" by Koi-discovery. freemusicarchive.org/music/koi-discovery/omega/retrospective
A Meditation on Mortality - Teach us to number our days . . . - Psalm 90 khanpadawan 2022-04-12 | A short video based on a sermon preached at Higher Ground Church in White House, TN on 4/10/22 by Dr. Dale Tuggy. Scriptures discussed include Psalm 90:1-12, Luke 12:13-33, Matthew 10:28, Mark 8:33-35, 1 John 2:15-17, Matthew 7:13-14. facebook.com/hgcnashville
trinities 346 - Is Jesus still a man? - Part 2 khanpadawan 2022-03-10 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-346-is-jesus-still-a-man-part-2 Does the New Testament teach that when God raised and exalted the Lord Jesus, this changed Jesus from being human to being divine?There’s at least one passage in Paul’s letters which at first glance sounds like this, and this view is held by some unitarian Christians.In this episode I answer an email from listener Corey in which he argues that certain texts clearly teach that Jesus is no longer human, but is instead divine.I discuss the texts he cites, and I again make use of the god-deity distinction discussed last time, and point out a crucial ambiguity in the terms “humanity” and “divinity.” Are these supposed to be essences/natures, or mere statuses/accidental properties? It is going to matter when we ask whether or not Jesus is still human!Here are some rough definitions of the key terms discussed in this and in the last episode, and some clear implications of these terms, as I discuss them at the end of this episode.deity: a very powerful self whose powers exceed those of the natural realm.god: a necessarily unique deity who is the ultimate source of everything else there is.By definition, any god is a deity, but by the definitions at most one deity can be a god.Divine status – being an immortal being who enjoys much greater powers than the humans we see around us now.Human status – having the sorts of limitations we see in the humans alive now (other than Christ).Or perhaps one may stipulate that by “divine status” one means instead this:Divine status – whatever condition it is which is now enjoyed by the exalted Jesus and which will be enjoyed by resurrected believers in the future.By the definitions, having human status implies not having divine status, and divine statues implies not having human status. On the first definition of “divine status” above, nowadays both God and Jesus will have it, but on the second definition, the exalted Jesus but not God would enjoy “divine status.”We must distinguish “divinity” and “humanity” as involving statuses from these important ideas:Divine essence – the property or properties in virtue of which their owner is a god.Human essence – the property or properties in virtue of which their owner is a human being.Because these are by definition kind-essences, nothing can gain or lose them without coming into existence or going out of existence. Thus, if Jesus ever had human essence, then he continues to have it now.And because of the properties involved, in principle nothing could either gain or lose divine essence, nor could a thing have it because of something else. Thus, it can’t be that God has awarded Jesus with divine essence.Because of the properties involved (see podcasts 343 and 344 or 263 and 264), if anyone has divine essence then it follows that they lack human essence, and if anyone has human essence then they lack divine essence.Having heard both sides, do you affirm or deny that Jesus is no longer human? Let us know in a comment below.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-346-is-jesus-still-a-man-part-2Revised English Version1 Corinthians 15:35-58; 1 Corinthians 15:44; REV comment on 1 Cor 15:45; 2 Peter 1:4; 1 John 3:2; Hebrews 1:3; Genesis 1:26-27; John 14:7-10; Galatians 1:1; Galatians 1:11-12; Galatians 1:15-17.podcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!This week’s thinking music is “lostTrack” by airtone.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "lostTrack" by airtone. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/airtone/64772
trinities 345 - Is Jesus still a man? - Part 1 khanpadawan 2022-03-02 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-345-is-jesus-still-a-man-part-1 A few months ago a podcast listener wrote me a long email arguing that clearly, according to the New Testament, the risen and exalted Lord Jesus is no longer human, but is instead divine.In this first part of my reply I lay the groundwork for my response in part 2, where I’ll interact with his arguments and proof-texts.First I explain why, in general, knowledge of Philosophy is helpful for theology and for interpretation of the Bible, and point out that philosophical issues and assumptions are unavoidable. I counter a common sentiment that “Philosophy” is only a corrupting and unfortunate and “pagan” thing.I then explain two importantly different ways to understand the terms “divine” and “human” – these can mean mere conditions or status (in technical lingo, “accidental” properties) or they might mean essences/natures (aka all of some kind of thing’s “essential properties”). I explain these two interpretations, and then argue that we should, for general metaphysical reasons, believe that there are kind-essences.I also explain different uses in theology of the words “nature” and “god” in Christian theology, also making use of the deity/god distinction explained in some of my previous work.Links for this episode:What is Philosophy?Divine simplicityThe Reluctant Theologian Podcastpodcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”podcast 344 – Craig’s Contradictory Christ – Part 2podcast 343 – Craig’s Contradictory Christ – Part 1podcast 59 – Dr. Carl Mosser on salvation as deificationpodcast 60 – Dr. Carl Mosser on deification in the Bibleomnipotence“On counting gods”podcast 164 – On Counting GodsIs Jesus Human and Not Divine?podcast 264 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 2podcast 263 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 1A letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and MeThis week’s thinking music is “Bluenotation” by Ezra Skull.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Bluenotation" by Ezra Skull. http://ccmixter.org/files/Haskel/64588
trinities 344 - Craig’s Contradictory Christ - Part 2 khanpadawan 2022-01-17 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-344-craigs-contradictory-christ-part-2 In this episode I critically evaluate Dr. Craig’s “Neo-Apollinarian” christology, and I find that it is beset with many metaphysical, creedal, and biblical problems.Topics include: How Dr. Craig does not come close to addressing all of the apparent clashes between the kind-essencs divinity and humanity. How Craig’s christology unfortunately implies that Jesus lied in the episode reported in Mark 13:32. His unorthodox claim that the divine Son was always human.Dr. Craig's suggestion in a public debate that the movie Avatar gives us a helpful model for understanding the Incarnation. His underdeveloped and seemingly unhelpful appeal to the qua move (a.k.a. reduplicative predication), e.g. saying that as human Jesus was mortal but as divine he was immortal. How on his account the incarnate Christ would not have the divine kind of knowledge. How on his account the incarnate Christ will be less than fully human, as he will lack many properties essential to being human. How Dr. Craig’s theory sides with the catholic mainstream but against the New Testament in holding that Jesus is not a human person, although he is in a unique sense “human.”This proposed christology is so unsuccessful that it should cause the thinking Christian to revisit this inconsistent triad of claims we looked at last time: 1. Jesus is divine. 2. Anything which is divine is not also human, and anything which is human is not also divine. 3. Jesus is human.Specifically, is denying 2 really defensible? Mustn’t we rather accept 2, and so, to be consistent, mustn’t we only accept one of 1 and 3? If so, which way does Scripture as a whole point?Links for this episode @trinities.org/blog/podcast-344-craigs-contradictory-christ-part-2podcast 343 – Craig’s Contradictory Christ – Part 1Craig and Moreland, Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview, 2nd ed.Mark 13:32; Matthew 24:36; Genesis 1:26-27; John 8:40.Question of the Week #410 Incarnation and OmniscienceQuestion of the Week #445 Was Christ a Contingent Being?podcast 341 – Reflections on my debate with Dr. Andrew Lokepodcast 340 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 2podcast 339 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 1“kenotic” Incarnation theoriesa reading of Philippians 2:5-11What John 1 Meantpodcast 31 – Dr. William Hasker on the “Arian” Controversypodcast 30 – The Council of NiceaDecrees of the Ecumenical CouncilsPawl, The Incarnationpodcast 144 – Dr. Timothy Pawl’s In Defense of Conciliar Christology – Part 2podcast 143 – Dr. Timothy Pawl’s In Defense of Conciliar Christology – Part 1Morris, The Logic of God IncarnateThe Case Against the Preexistence of Christ – by Dr. Dale TuggyDebate – Identifying Jesus – Yusuf Ismail and William Lane CraigVishnu and his avatarsParrinder, Avatar and Incarnationpodcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!podcast 235 – The Case Against PreexistenceWeekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "bluenotes" by airtone. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/airtone/64427
trinities 343 - Craigs Contradictory Christ - Part 1 khanpadawan 2022-01-12 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-343-craigs-contradictory-christ-part-1 Since 2003 Dr. William Lane Craig has been propounding what he calls his “Neo-Apollinarian” theory as a model of the Incarnation which is contradiction-free. On this take on traditional “two natures” theory, God the Son (a.k.a. the divine nature) serves as the soul of the “complete human nature” of the divine-human Christ.In this first episode I put the discussion in context by explaining various ways Christians deal with the following inconsistent triad of claims (a set such that if any two are true, then the remaining claim is false): Jesus is divine. Anything which is divine is not also human, and anything which is human is not also divine. Jesus is human.Option 1: Accept all three, holding that there can be true contradictions. So in addition to 1-3 one will also believe 4. It is false that Jesus is divine (which is entailed by 2 and 3), and 5. It is false that Jesus is human (which is entailed by 1 and 2).Option 2: Deny 1 because the Bible doesn’t teach that, while accepting 2 and 3. This is my response.Option 3: Deny 2, giving a seemingly coherent model on which someone might be both human and divine. This is Dr. Craig’s response.Option 4: Deny 4, accepting docetism about Christ, that he only appears to be human. This is favored by few Christians, as it contradicts clear New Testament teaching.Incarnation theories may posit as many as five elements, as shown above. But Dr. Craig’s theory features only three, eliminating the “rational soul” in the “human nature” because, it is suggested, the divine nature can serve that function. In addition, he is clear that the divine nature is one and the same as Christ. To the left is my illustration of this theory.In setting up his theory, Dr. Craig mentions six seeming clashes between divinity and humanity, shown in black in white here from his presentation.But as I explain, winning the defend-the-Incarnation game is harder than he lets on, as there are at least 15 pairs of qualities such that (1) in principle nothing could simultaneously have both, (2) the first quality seems to be essential to divinity, while (3) the second quality seems essential to humanity. self-existent (a se) / dependent existence metaphysically necessary existence / met cont ex eternal / time-bound (or: existing at all times vs. not having always existed) perfect power (omnipotence) / limited power perfect knowledge (omniscience) / limited knowledge not in principle able to believe a falsehood / in principle able to believe a falsehood omnipresent / not omnipresent uncreated / created absolute moral perfection / in principle able to fall short of moral perfection in principle untemptable / in principle temptable impeccable / peccable in principle unable to improve one’s moral character / in principle able to improve one’s moral character immortal (in principle can’t be mortal)/ possibly mortal (in principle can be mortal) provident over anything else there is / subject to God’s providence authoritative over any other beings there are /under God’s authorityThis episode includes the heart of Dr. Craig’s December 2021 presentation of his views in a video entitled “The Birth of God.”In the next episode I’ll argue that Dr. Craig’s christology does seem to imply contradictions, and so doesn’t show what it’s supposed to show, which is that there is a viable interpretation of Chalcedonian “two natures” christology which seems coherent.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-343-craigs-contradictory-christ-part-1Dr. Craig’s ministry Reasonable Faith“The Birth of God” – the video quoted in this episodeDebate – “Is Jesus Human and not Divine?” – Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Chris DateDate and Tuggy, Is Jesus Human and Not Divine?Clarifying Catholic ChristologiesCraig and Moreland, Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview, 2nd ed.the definition from the catholic council at Chalcedon in 451podcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!This week’s thinking music is “Don’t Die Dog (Instrumental)” by Greg Atkinson.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Don't Die Dog (Instrumental)" by Greg Atkinson. freemusicarchive.org/music/Greg_Atkinson/Instrumentals/Dont_Die_Dog_Instrumental
trinities 342 - New Year, New Podcasts! khanpadawan 2022-01-03 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-342-new-year-new-podcasts Well, these are not new podcasts, but maybe some of these will be new to you.In this first podcast of 2022 I share with you some theology-related podcasts that I regularly listen to, serving up samples and explaining what I like about them.As I explain, some of them have a very broad appeal, while others cater more to the theology (and philosophy, and history, and Bible) “nerd.” All of them, in various ways, can enrich your thought life and your spiritual life.At the start of this episode I also say a few things about what you can expect from the trinities podcast in 2022, and ask you for some feedback regarding interviews.Below are links to all the episodes quoted here, as well as “top-level” podcast pages and other related links.Do you already listen to some of these? If so, let us know in a comment below what you like about them, and drop a link or two to your favorite episode(s).Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-342-new-year-new-podcastspodcast 230 – The Failure of Fashionable Antiunitarian ArgumentsTuggy, “Antiunitarian Arguments from Divine Perfection,” Journal of Analytic Theologytrinities 2021 highlights – a grateful reviewpodcast 207 – Ryan Mullins – In Defense of Divine Temporalitypodcast 142 – Dr. R.T. Mullins on the coherence of “classical” theismpodcast 141 – Dr. R.T. Mullins – Is God timeless?R.T. Mullins home pageThe Reluctant Theologian PodcastMullins, “The Doctrine of Divine Simplicity“The Reluctant Theologian Podcast – Ep. 85 What is Time?podcast 212 – Some Thoughts about God and TimeHenry More (1614–1687)The Reluctant Theologian Podcast – Ep. 84 William Lane Craig on God, Time, and CreationThe Unitarian Christian Alliance PodcastUCA Podcast 33 – My Trinitarian Best Friend – Amanda Dunn (Part 1)UCA Podcast 34 – My Homeschooling Nail-biter – Amanda Dunn (Part 2)UCA Podcast 6 – Working at the Colson Center – Anna BrownUCA Podcast 38 – The Making of a Trinity Nerd – Dale TuggyThe Biblical Unitarian PodcastThe Biblical Unitarian Podcast 204 – An Introduction to the Theme of Misunderstanding in the Gospel of JohnThe Bible Feed PodcastUCA podcast 16 – Bible Feed Podcast – Dan Weatherall, Paul DavenportThe Bible Feed Podcast – Episode 10: What is Bible Feed all about?The Bible Feed Podcast – Episode 31: Thinking about the Trinity (3) Q&A with Tom GastonThe Bible Feed Podcast – Episode 39: “I and the Father are one”The Analytic Christian HomepageThe Analytic Christian YouTube channelThe Analytic Christian – The Incarnation & Mark 13:32 (Dr. Tim Pawl)podcast 143 – Dr. Timothy Pawl’s In Defense of Conciliar Christology – Part 1Thomas AquinasTim Pawl homepageRestitutio podcastRestitutio 420 One God 10: Christ’s Exaltation & Priestly Service December 3, 2021Restitutio 419 One God 9: Christ’s Crucifixion and Resurrection November 26, 2021Restitutio 418 One God 8: Jesus Called God? November 19, 2021Restitutio 417 One God 7: Jesus, God’s Agent November 12, 2021Restitutio 416 One God 6: Jesus, God’s Subordinate Son November 4, 2021Restitutio 415 One God 5: Jesus, God’s Messiah October 29, 2021Restitutio 414 One God 4: Yahweh, the God of Jesus October 21, 2021Restitutio 413 One God 3: Yahweh Versus the Idols October 14, 2021Restitutio 412 One God 2: Yahweh Our God, Yahweh Is One October 7, 2021Restitutio 411 One God 1: Yahweh, the Supreme Creator October 1, 2021Restitutio 409 Serving God as a Single Person (Matthew Elton) September 16, 2021Unitarian Christian Alliance YouTube channelThe One God Report PodcastRestitutio Interview 31: Master’s University Prof. Finds Son of God, Loses Job (Bill Schlegel) April 5, 2018From Trinity to One God – by Bill & Stephanie SchlegelOne God Report Podcast 60 – Finding the Deity of Christ in the Old Testament is not a New Testament Exercise, Part 1 – JesusUCA Conference Video – Bill Schlegel – Finding Evidence for the Deity of Christ in the OT is not a NT ExerciseThe Logos Institute for Analytic and Exegetical TheologyPogos Podcast hostsPogos Podcasts @ SoundcloudThomas Williams homepagePogos Podcast – Thomas Williams on Anselm and Atonement, Episode IIIAnselm, Cur Deus HomoAnselm: Basic Writings, trans. Williamstrinities podcast 232 – Trinity Club OrientationAnselm21a Anselm’s ontological arguments – Anselm, the Proslogion 2 argumentThis week’s thinking music is “nightWalk” by airtone. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/airtone/56520
trinities 341 - Reflections on my debate with Dr. Andrew Loke khanpadawan 2021-12-23 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-341-reflections-on-my-debate-with-dr-andrew-loke My recent debate with Dr. Andrew Loke about the deity of Christ was courteous but content-rich. In this episode I follow up on some of those issues and arguments.Topics include: How Dr. Loke follows some other two natures theorists in understanding Christ’s two natures to be concrete things and not mere properties. How this sort of two-natures theory is subject to serious too-many-sons problems, which is clear, for instance, in the case of the properties mortal and immortal. Whether or not the alleged Christ-creator texts straightforwardly imply the falsity of any sort of subordinationism. Dr. Loke’s suggestion that in the New Testament the Father is not one and the same with God, but rather, the Father “represents” God (as do Jesus and the Holy Spirit). I speculate on why he thinks this, and argue that the New Testament writings assume its falsity. When we can attribute a property of a proper part to its whole, and how this applies when it comes to the essential attributes of immortality and uncreatedness. Concerns about the christological mistake called docetism. Why I’ve not argued that there is only on “God” in the New Testament or only one “Lord” there, although I do observe that there is a unique god and a unique lord there. Why I think it is a mistake to think that the kind of knowledge enjoyed by a perfect being would be merely knowing all truths, and how this affects Dr. Loke’s krypsis model of two-natures theory. Why it is important evidence that the New Testament authors never warn us against inferring that Jesus is limited in power, knowledge, or goodness. Some disagreements Dr. Loke and I seemed to have about what I think are one essential divine attribute and one essential human attribute. Finally, I compare what Dr. Loke says about Jesus’s seeming denial that he is “good” in Mark 10 with what is said about that passage by Thomas Emlyn in his famous short book An Humble Inquiry.What did you learn from this debate? What did you think were tho most interesting exchanges?Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-341-reflections-on-my-debate-with-dr-andrew-lokepodcast 340 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 2podcast 339 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 11 Corinthians 8:4-6; John 20:24-29; John 17:1-3; Ephesians 4:4-6; Deuteronomy 6:4; John 8:54; Mark 1:1; 1 Corinthians 1:9; 2 Corinthians 1:19; Ephesians 4:13; 2 John 3; John 6:45; John 8:41; John 13:3; Acts 2:33; Ephesians 1:17; Colossians 1:3; James 1:27; James 3:9; 2 John 9; 2 Corinthians 1:2-4; Psalm 11:1, Acts 2:33-35; John 17:5, John 5:26; John 6:68; John 17:8; Mark 13:32; Mark 10:17-22.podcast 259 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 2podcast 258 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 1epikaleoJohn 20:28 – Did Thomas Confess that Jesus IS God?God and his Son – the logic of the New TestamentReading comprehension quiz: Johann 17:1-3podcast 226 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 3 – post-biblical uses of biblical words, and new wordspodcast 225 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 – Old “Lord” vs. New “Lord”podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Biblepodcast 248 – How Trinity theories conflict with the Biblepodcast 77 – Mr. Chad McIntosh on the Trinitypodcast 76 – Justin Martyr’s Dialogue with Trypho – Part 3podcast 75 – Justin Martyr’s Dialogue with Trypho – Part 2podcast 74 – Justin Martyr’s Dialogue with Trypho – Part 1podcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformationpodcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”podcast 332 – Emlyn’s Humble InquiryEmlyn’s An Humble Inquiry @ AmazonBock and Loke on Jesus’s “blasphemy” in Mark 14 – Part 1Bock and Loke on Jesus’s “blasphemy” in Mark 14 – Part 2Dr. Loke’s reply to the two above posts (last 3 pages)Clarifying Catholic Christologiespodcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies! This week's thinking music is "Underclocked (underunderclocked mix)" by Eric Skiff. freemusicarchive.org/music/Josh_Woodward/The_Simple_Life_Part_1/JoshWoodward-TSL-NoVox-103-Saturday
trinities 340 - Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? - Loke vs. Tuggy - Part 2 khanpadawan 2021-12-15 | In this final portion of our debate, we engage in about 40 minutes of free-flowing discussion, followed by our closing statements.Our topic is New Testament teaching, but I can’t resist raising what look to me like some serious problems for Dr. Loke’s “kryptic” theory of the incarnation, on which the Son’s divine omniscience is in his “pre-conscious” mind, not being directly accessible to him. Among other problems, surely perfection in knowledge requires more than omniscience, and some divine attributes are not mental.Now that you’ve heard the whole debate, which side made the stronger case, and why?After you hear our exchange on the famous “my Lord and my God” text, you can check out the video below from the Unitarian Christian Alliance YouTube channel. youtu.be/PmTsuCv7oSk I think it makes points which complement my all-too-brief remarks here.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-340-does-the-new-testament-teach-that-jesus-is-truly-divine-loke-vs-tuggy-part-2podcast 339 – Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? – Loke vs. Tuggy – Part 1Dr. Loke’s publications at Academia.eduLoke, The Origin of Divine ChristologyLoke, A Kryptic Model of the IncarnationJordan Hampton’s The Analytic Christian YouTube channelThe original video of this whole debate.Kermit Zarley on “My Lord and my God.”R.T. France on Mark 13:32the NET Bible on Mark 13:32A letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and MeTuggy and Date, Is Jesus Human and Not Divine?podcast 259 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 2podcast 258 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 1podcast 226 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 3 – post-biblical uses of biblical words, and new wordspodcast 225 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 – Old “Lord” vs. New “Lord”podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Biblepodcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Saturday (Instrumental)" by Josh Woodward. freemusicarchive.org/music/Josh_Woodward/The_Simple_Life_Part_1/JoshWoodward-TSL-NoVox-103-Saturday
trinities 339 - Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is truly divine? - Loke vs. Tuggy - Part 1 khanpadawan 2021-12-07 | In August of 2021 I debated Dr. Andrew Loke on the above topic for The Analytic Christian YouTube channel. Dr. Loke makes his case by arguing that a handful of New Testament texts clearly imply the full deity of Jesus, focusing on ones which in his view assert that Jesus was “involved in creation” and so must be “on the creator side of the creator-creature divide.”In my opening, I argue that New Testament clearly teaches six things about Jesus and God which imply that Jesus is not truly divine, as he must lack certain divine attributes. This first episode includes our opening statements and rebuttals. Next week you’ll hear the rest of the debate.Which opening case is stronger, and why? And including the rebuttals, in your view, which one of us makes the stronger case? Thanks to Jordan for setting this debate up and being a good moderator, and to Dr. Loke for his goodwill and clear arguments.Given more time, there is a good bit more I would say about why it’s a mistake to think that the New Testament authors assert, imply, or assume that Jesus is truly and fully divine (see several of the links below). On the other hand, I’m pretty happy with my opening statement here as a summary of why we should not think the New Testament Jesus is divine in the way the one God is divine. Thus, I made it into the following stand-alone video: youtu.be/GJCZervdJEkLinks for this episode: @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-339---does-the-new-testament-teach-that-jesus-is-truly-divine---loke-vs-tuggy---part-1/(opens in a new tab)Dr. Loke’s publications at Academia.eduLoke, The Origin of Divine ChristologyLoke, A Kryptic Model of the IncarnationJordan Hampton’s The Analytic Christian YouTube channelThe original video of this whole debate.podcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”podcast 124 – a challenge to “Jesus is God” apologistsA letter from the Lord Jesus: About God and Mepodcast 264 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 2podcast 263 – Tuggy vs. Date debate – Jesus is human and not divine – Part 1Tuggy and Date, Is Jesus Human and Not Divine?podcast 259 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 2podcast 258 – Who is the one Creator? – Part 1podcast 226 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 3 – post-biblical uses of biblical words, and new wordspodcast 225 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 – Old “Lord” vs. New “Lord”podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Biblepodcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!podcast 146 – Jesus as an Exemplar of Faith in the New Testamentpodcast 277 – Was Christ tempted in every way?podcast 227 – Who Should Christians Worship?a reading of Philippians 2:5-11This week’s thinking music is “Don’t Die Dog (Instrumental)” by Greg Atkinson.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Don't Die Dog (Instrumental)" by Greg Atkinson. freemusicarchive.org/music/Greg_Atkinson/Instrumentals/Dont_Die_Dog_Instrumental
The biblical Jesus is not fully divine khanpadawan 2021-12-06 | The negative opening statement from this August 2021 debate: youtube.com/watch?v=6k-ECuZFCsA For another case than in the New Testament Jesus is not fully divine see: youtu.be/ipicKW1Dp30 For a case using a great number of New Testament texts, see: trinities.org/blog/letter
trinities 338 - What John 1 Meant khanpadawan 2021-11-15 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-338-what-john-1-meant This lecture was the opening session of the 2021 Unitarian Christian Alliance Conference.In it, after briefly surveying the historical range of interpretations of John 1:1-18, I show how earlier literature gives us the context in which the original audience would have understood the prologue of the fourth gospel.The resulting interpretation is compatible with but does not imply Trinity or Incarnation as normally understood, as befits a writing of the late 1st century.The keys to understanding this text, I show, are themes from previous Jewish “wisdom” literature.Along the way I explain why trinitarian, subordinationist, oneness/modalist, and Socinian interpretations of this text are problematic.But my purpose is not to give full refutations of these, but rather to show how overall plausible and well-motivated the correct interpretation is.A correction: when I listed the four kinds of readings of John 1, I unaccountably left out the Oneness/Modalist sort. But I do discuss it, and why I think it is mistaken.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-338-what-john-1-meantthe handout for this talkRecommended video versionUCA podcast 38. The Making of a Trinity Nerd – Dale TuggySpirit and TruthAtlanta Bible CollegeLiving Hope International MinistriesAllegiance to the KingWilliamsburg Christadelphian FoundationIntegrity Syndicate21st Century Reformation OnlineAll your base are belong to uspodcast 301 – Dr. Daniel Boyarin on John 1podcast 298 – Andrews Norton on John 1podcast 295 – James Martineau on John 1podcast 294 – Dr. Jo-Ann Brant on the Gospel According to John – Part 2podcast 293 – Dr. Jo-Ann Brant on the Gospel According to John – Part 1podcast 292 – New vs. Old “Beginning” – Two Interpretations of John 1podcast 291 – From one God to two gods to three “Gods” – John 1 and early Christian theologiespodcast 290 – Is the “Socinian” interpretation of John 1 correct? A conversation with Carlos.podcast 289 – “Socinian” approaches to John 1 – Part 2podcast 288 – “Socinian” approaches to John 1 – Part 1podcast 287 – Dr. Andrew Perry on John 1podcast 116 – George R. Noyes’s Explanation of Isaiah 9:6 and John 1:1podcast 70 – The one God and his Son according to Johnpodcast 63 – Thomas Belsham and other scholars on John 8:58podcast 62 – Dr. Dustin Smith on the preexistence of Jesus in the gospel of JohnDebating John 1: Eusebius vs. MarcellusJohn A. T. Robinson on “the Word” of John 1This week’s thinking music is “Circles (Instrumental)” by Greg Atkinson. Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Circles (Instrumental)" by Greg Atkinson. freemusicarchive.org/music/Greg_Atkinson/Instrumentals/Circles_1596
trinities 337 - Chris Dates Search for a Viable Trinity Theory - Part 2 khanpadawan 2021-11-09 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-337-chris-dates-search-for-a-viable-trinity-theory-part-2 In this episode, apologist Chris Date continues to develop his Trinity theory we heard the roots of last time, and also adds in a new, similar but different theory.Starting from ideas in a Psychology article, and adding some reflections based on his favorite first-person shooter video game, Chris Date suggests that one being/substance might well have three “subjectivities” or points of view. This is supposed to give us an idea of “Persons” which are not beings, but rather attributes of beings (or of their experiences).But in principle, could such “Persons” (which are attributes/properties/features) do what the New Testament says that the Father and the Son do? I urge not – that’s the gist of my objections to his first Trinity theory here.On his second Trinity theory – quickly expounded towards the end of his episode, each “Person” of the Trinity is a self. But the problem now is that they will be the same self. And so similarly, this second theory clashes with the New Testament too, ruling out the interpersonal (self to another self) relationship we see there between God and his human Son.Towards the end, I explain why I genuinely appreciate what Chris Date is doing, and why I think he should keep going in his quest for a viable Trinity theory.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-337-chris-dates-search-for-a-viable-trinity-theory-part-2Chris Date @ Academia.eduThe Unitarian Christian Alliance PodcastUCA Podcast #36 – The 1st UCA Conference – Stacey BergerUCA Podcast #38 (link coming)podcast 336 – Chris Date’s Search for a Viable Trinity Theory – Part 1Theopologetics 028: Can an Orthodox Doctrine of the Trinity Be Logically Coherent?Wozniak, ““I” and “Me”: The Self in the Context of Consciousness”Zagzebski, “Omnisubjectivity“Mullins, “The Doctrine of Divine Simplicity“Divine Simplicity Q&A w/ William Lane Craig + Ryan MullinsWhy Would Someone Hold to Divine Simplicity? (w/ Ryan Mullins)Mullins, “Divine Simplicity and Modal Collapse: A Persistent Problem“Does the Trinity Contradict with Classical Theism? (w/ Ryan Mullins)DEBATE: Trinity vs. Tawheed (Dr. James White vs. Jake Brancatella)podcast 302 – The Stages of Trinitarian Commitmentpodcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformationpodcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”podcast 260 – How to Argue that the Bible is TrinitarianThe Tuggy-Brown debate: Dale’s opening statementHow Trinity theories conflict with the New Testamentpodcast 248 – How Trinity theories conflict with the BibleThis week’s thinking music is the track “Arpanauts” by Eric Skiff.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is the track "Arpanauts" by Eric Skiff. freemusicarchive.org/music/Eric_Skiff/Resistor_Anthems/eric_skiff_-_10_-_arpanauts
trinities 336 - Chris Dates Search for a Viable Trinity Theory - Part 1 khanpadawan 2021-11-05 | PART TWO: trinities.org/blog/podcast-337-chris-dates-search-for-a-viable-trinity-theory-part-2trinities.org/blog/podcast-336-chris-dates-search-for-a-viable-trinity-theory-part-1 Some object to “the doctrine of the Trinity” that it is incoherent – that is, that it implies one or more contradictions. This is the sort of objection which apologists tend to focus on.But it’s never been clear quite what that doctrine is, as tradition has bequeathed words in need of interpretation without also giving the interpretations. Given this, it’s hard to make the case that “the doctrine” is incoherent. And some trinitarians think that there are a number of different doctrines, each of which should count as “the doctrine of the Trinity.”In this episode, you’ll hear apologist Chris Date expound what he claims are criteria for a Trinity theory to be orthodox, i.e. in line with (at least the first four) catholic creeds. These are the seven statements shown here. He then starts to expound what he claims is a Trinity doctrine which is both orthodox and coherent. If he’s right, then there is at least one orthodox Trinity-theology which is coherent, and the aforementioned critics are mistaken.In this episode I join in on his exploration of these topics, commenting on his seven criteria for an orthodox theory, and on how he starts to develop his views on how the “divine Persons” relate to the one God. In the next episode, we’ll hear the rest of his development of these ideas, and my critical comments on them.If you are looking for a way of understanding “the Trinity” which is coherent, you should enjoy these explorations.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-336-chris-dates-search-for-a-viable-trinity-theory-part-1Theopologetics 028: Can an Orthodox Doctrine of the Trinity Be Logically Coherent?December 4, 2021 debate: Does the Trinity Make Sense? A Debate Between Chris Date vs Muslim MetaphysicianDebate – “Is Jesus Human and not Divine?” – Dr. Dale Tuggy vs. Chris DateTuggy and Date, Is Jesus Human and Not Divine?Tuggy, “Trinity,” Stanford Encyclopedia of PhilosophyHow Trinity theories conflict with the New Testamentpodcast 248 – How Trinity theories conflict with the Biblepodcast 232 – Trinity Club OrientationTuggy, What is the Trinity?podcast 2 – the “Athanasian Creed”podcast 286 – Is the Trinity Essential? – Three Viewspodcast 28 – Interview with Dr. William Hasker about his Metaphysics and the Tripersonal God – Part 2podcast 27 – Interview with Dr. William Hasker about his Metaphysics and the Tripersonal God – Part 1podcast 325 – Dr. Jc Beall – The Contradictory Christ – Part 2podcast 324 – Dr. Jc Beall – The Contradictory Christ – Part 1“abstract objects,” Stanford Encyclopedia of PhilosophyThis week’s thinking music is “The night is calling” by Kraftamt.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "The night is calling" by Kraftamt. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/Karstenholymoly/62739
trinities 335 - Pastor Jeff Deuble’s Christ Before Creeds khanpadawan 2021-10-26 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-335---pastor-jeff-deubles-christ-before-creeds As a life-long Church of Christ member and a long-time pastor, Jeff Deuble had a Bible-centered faith, endorsing such slogans as “No creed but Christ,” “Where the Scriptures speak, we speak; where the Scriptures are silent, we’re silent,” “Bible things by Bible names,” “We’re Christians only, not the only Christians," and “In essentials, unity; in non-essentials liberty; in all things, love.”But what is essential to Christian teaching according the Bible? One day Jeff Deuble’s older brother told him that he thought Jesus is the Son of God, but not God the Son. Why? Because in his view, this is what the Bible teaches, as against later traditions.A lifelong Christian, Pastor Deuble was shocked and horrified. Haven’t basically all Christians always believed that Jesus is God the Son, one of three “divine Persons” in the triune God? This started off a scriptural investigation of some 12 years, and the theological change which Pastor Deuble explains in this readable, charitable, and engaging new book. He has come to see “the Trinity” and “the deity of Christ” as not essential according to Scripture.Is he right?The three other interviews below are complimentary to this one; be sure to check them out if you’d like to hear more from Pastor Deuble before delving into the book.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-335---pastor-jeff-deubles-christ-before-creedsChrist Before Creeds (Amazon)Christ Before Creeds – Dale Tuggy, Sean Finnegan, Anna Brown & Jeff DeubleRestitutio 366 Who Was Christ before the Creeds? (Jeff Deuble)Restitutio 408 Christ before Creeds Book (Jeff Deuble)Restitutio Interview 49 They Never Told Me This in Church (Greg Deuble)Three recent whistleblowerspodcast 332 – Emlyn’s Humble Inquirypodcast 22 – a cure for odium theologicumpodcast 334 – “Who do you say I am?”10 steps towards getting less confused about the Trinity – #8 – trinity vs. TrinityThe Tuggy-Brown debate: Dale’s opening statementpodcast 302 – The Stages of Trinitarian Commitmentpodcast 108 – Dr. Robert M. Bowman Jr. on triadic New Testament passages – part 2podcast 107 – Dr. Robert M. Bowman Jr. on triadic New Testament passages – part 1What is essential to the gospel, according to Luke?podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Biblepodcast 191 – Ware’s Outline of the Testimony of Scripture Against the Trinitypodcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformationpodcast 285 – Does the Bible Teach that God is a Trinity? Cole-Tuggy Dialogue – Part 4podcast 284 – Does the Bible Teach that God is a Trinity? Cole-Tuggy Dialogue – Part 3podcast 283 – Does the Bible Teach that God is a Trinity? Cole-Tuggy Dialogue – Part 2podcast 282 – Does the Bible Teach that God is a Trinity? Cole-Tuggy Dialogue – Part 1podcast 286 – Is the Trinity Essential? – Three ViewsThis week’s thinking music is “reCreation” by airtone.Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week’s thinking music is “reCreation” by airtone. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/airtone/59721
trinities 334 - Who do you say I am? khanpadawan 2021-09-22 | trinities.org/blog/podcast-334-who-do-you-say-i-am What would we expect to see in the New Testament if these authors thought Jesus to be a man and not a god? What would we expect to see if they thought he was a god but not a man? And what would we expect to see in these book if the authors thought that Jesus was a “godman,” one of three “Persons” within the triune God?The answers, when we compare them to what is actually in the New Testament, are most illuminating. And this extended argument can’t be accused of “assuming unitarianism.” Observations like these are part of why many are switching from a trinitarian to a unitarian understanding of New Testament theology and christology.Because of my many slides, I recommend excellent the video version of this new lecture from August 2021 in Antioch, Tennessee.Links for this episode @ trinities.org/blog/podcast-334-who-do-you-say-i-am Unitarian Christian Alliance (conference)RestitutioClarifying Catholic Christologiespodcast 226 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 3 – post-biblical uses of biblical words, and new wordspodcast 225 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 2 – Old “Lord” vs. New “Lord”podcast 224 – Biblical Words for God and for his Son Part 1 – God and “God” in the Biblepodcast 190 – What is the Trinity? A triad of book reviewspodcast 189 – The unfinished business of the Reformationpodcast 166 – Alvan Lamson’s On the Doctrine of Two Natures in Jesus Christ – Part 2podcast 165 – Alvan Lamson’s On the Doctrine of Two Natures in Jesus Christ – Part 1podcast 156 – Dr. J.R. Daniel Kirk on A Man Attested by God – Part 2podcast 155 – Dr. J.R. Daniel Kirk on A Man Attested by God – Part 1This week’s thinking music is “Sector Vector” by Little Glass Men. Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy. This week's thinking music is "Sector Vector" by Little Glass Men. freemusicarchive.org/music/Little_Glass_Men/Future_Shapes/Sector_Vector_020617_L2
