Uploaded March 2025 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
Civilisation always wants more energy.
The idea that our global society will merely switch from one energy source to another is fantasy masquerading as policy. Every time human beings discover a new energy source our overall consumption of raw materials increases. Whether that’s wood powering newly discovered coal mines in the 19th Century, or fossil fuels manufacturing renewable technology, the history of human energy consumption shows we have no precedent for the policy adopted by every single nation in the world.
So where did the idea come from?
Jean-Baptise Fressoz, historian and author of More and More: An All-Consuming History of Energy, joins me to explain this false history — that we have projected a story of technology onto a story of materials, explaining that raw materials never become obsolete. He explains how the phrase “energy transition” was coined by atomic scientists after World War 2, and only gained traction after being adopted by President Jimmy Carter, revealing how these fantastical notions were rubbished in the scientific discourse until the private sector inserted itself into the conversation, buttressed by the nonsense published by neoclassical economists.
Jean-Baptiste’s research is astounding, and this episode is filled with incredible insights and revelations, and he ultimately points to the same conclusion as almost every guest on this podcast: There is no such thing as “decarbonisation” or dematerialisation”. The only meaningful policy that will protect the planet is reducing our pollution and consumption.
🔴 More and More and More: penguin.co.uk/books/464145/more-and-more-and-more-by-fressoz-jean-baptiste/9780241718896
🌎 Support Planet: Critical: patreon.com/planetcritical
🌎 Subscribe: planetcritical.com
🌎 BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/racheldonald.bsky.social
Civilisation always wants more energy.
The idea that our global society will merely switch from one energy source to another is fantasy masquerading as policy. Every time human beings discover a new energy source our overall consumption of raw materials increases. Whether that’s wood powering newly discovered coal mines in the 19th Century, or fossil fuels manufacturing renewable technology, the history of human energy consumption shows we have no precedent for the policy adopted by every single nation in the world.
So where did the idea come from?
Jean-Baptise Fressoz, historian and author of More and More: An All-Consuming History of Energy, joins me to explain this false history — that we have projected a story of technology onto a story of materials, explaining that raw materials never become obsolete. He explains how the phrase “energy transition” was coined by atomic scientists after World War 2, and only gained traction after being adopted by President Jimmy Carter, revealing how these fantastical notions were rubbished in the scientific discourse until the private sector inserted itself into the conversation, buttressed by the nonsense published by neoclassical economists.
Jean-Baptiste’s research is astounding, and this episode is filled with incredible insights and revelations, and he ultimately points to the same conclusion as almost every guest on this podcast: There is no such thing as “decarbonisation” or dematerialisation”. The only meaningful policy that will protect the planet is reducing our pollution and consumption.
🔴 More and More and More: penguin.co.uk/books/464145/more-and-more-and-more-by-fressoz-jean-baptiste/9780241718896
🌎 Support Planet: Critical: patreon.com/planetcritical
🌎 Subscribe: planetcritical.com
🌎 BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/racheldonald.bsky.social
