Uploaded June 2025 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago
What is “solidarity” and what does it require? Giving up on perfection, for one thing, says Sarah Schulman, author of “Conflict is Not Abuse,” and so much more. Award-winning writer, teacher, playwright and activist, Schulman’s latest book is “The Fantasy and Necessity of Solidarity”, in which she reflects on years of experiments and learning, from the 1980s to today. In this episode, find out what role GRITtv, an earlier iteration of Flanders’ show, played in the movement for Palestinian liberation, and hear a discussion of the Harlem artist Alice Neel. Schulman sits on the advisory board of Jewish Voice for Peace. Her non-fiction books include “Conflict is Not Abuse: Overstating Harm, Community Responsibility, and the Duty of Repair” and “Let the Record Show: A Political History of ACT UP New York, 1987-1993”. Also in this episode, a commentary from Laura on the assassination of Minnesota lawmaker Melissa Hortman, a strategic progressive who practiced solidarity.
“When I confronted the Israeli occupation of Palestine, something resonated for me emotionally between that and the AIDS experience. What I felt was similar was that people who were endangered were being falsely depicted as dangerous.” - Sarah Schulman
“Right now we're in the middle of a cataclysm of fascism and there's no quick fix. And we have to understand that the idea that you can go in and just fix it is a supremacy concept.” - Sarah Schulman
GUEST:
Sarah Schulman: Writer & AIDS Historian; Author, The Fantasy and Necessity of Solidarity
Stay informed and engaged! Don't miss out on our captivating weekly episodes that dive deep into the heart of our economy, culture, and politics. SUBSCRIBE HERE youtube.com/channel/UCFLRxVeYcB1H7DbuYZQG-lg?sub_confirmation=1
🎧 PODCAST: Listen to this week's episode on major podcast platforms: lauraflanders.simplecast.com/episodes/from-act-up-to-palestine-sarah-schulman-on-how-to-build-solidarity-across-difference-episode Subscribe today and receive the full, uncut conversation from this week's show: lauraflanders.simplecast.com/episodes/from-act-up-to-palestine-sarah-schulman-on-how-to-build-solidarity-across-difference-full-uncut-conversation
✏️SHOW NOTES: Visit our Patreon for Show Notes and learn more about this week's episode: patreon.com/posts/131774218
📚 Check out our Book of the Week on BOOKSHOP: “The Fantasy and Necessity of Solidarity” by Sarah Schulman: bookshop.org/a/22992/9780593854259
(*Bookshop is an online bookstore with a mission to financially support local, independent bookstores. LF&F is an affiliate of bookshop.org and will receive a small commission if you click through and make a purchase.)
Laura Flanders & Friends is non-commercial independent media that relies on the contributions of viewers and listeners.
Follow the show and Laura Flanders on Bluesky!
https://bsky.app/profile/lauraflanders.org
https://bsky.app/profile/gritlaura.bsky.social
DONATE TODAY at lauraflanders.org/donate or consider becoming a PATREON partner at patreon.com/lauraflandersandfriends
🔔Subscribe to get weekly episodes that prompt you to think critically about the world around you. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to hit the 'Like' button and share it with your network.
📩Newsletter: For more in-depth analysis, including uncut interviews and commentaries, subscribe to our free newsletter at lauraflanders.org.
CREDITS:
Executive Producer: Laura Flanders
Supervising Producer: Sabrina Artel
Senior Producer: Jeremiah Cothren
Senior Consulting Producer: Rory O’Connor
Senior Video Editor: David Neumann
Video Editor: Veronica Delgado
Audio Director: Jeannie Hopper
Development Director: Sarah Miller
Communications Director: Janet Hernandez
0:00 - Defining Solidarity
5:00 - Lessons from ACT UP
10:45 - Fascism and the Costs of Activism
15:30 - Artist Alice Neel, and Schulman's Upbringing
20:00 - Palestinian Liberation
What is “solidarity” and what does it require? Giving up on perfection, for one thing, says Sarah Schulman, author of “Conflict is Not Abuse,” and so much more. Award-winning writer, teacher, playwright and activist, Schulman’s latest book is “The Fantasy and Necessity of Solidarity”, in which she reflects on years of experiments and learning, from the 1980s to today. In this episode, find out what role GRITtv, an earlier iteration of Flanders’ show, played in the movement for Palestinian liberation, and hear a discussion of the Harlem artist Alice Neel. Schulman sits on the advisory board of Jewish Voice for Peace. Her non-fiction books include “Conflict is Not Abuse: Overstating Harm, Community Responsibility, and the Duty of Repair” and “Let the Record Show: A Political History of ACT UP New York, 1987-1993”. Also in this episode, a commentary from Laura on the assassination of Minnesota lawmaker Melissa Hortman, a strategic progressive who practiced solidarity.
“When I confronted the Israeli occupation of Palestine, something resonated for me emotionally between that and the AIDS experience. What I felt was similar was that people who were endangered were being falsely depicted as dangerous.” - Sarah Schulman
“Right now we're in the middle of a cataclysm of fascism and there's no quick fix. And we have to understand that the idea that you can go in and just fix it is a supremacy concept.” - Sarah Schulman
GUEST:
Sarah Schulman: Writer & AIDS Historian; Author, The Fantasy and Necessity of Solidarity
Stay informed and engaged! Don't miss out on our captivating weekly episodes that dive deep into the heart of our economy, culture, and politics. SUBSCRIBE HERE youtube.com/channel/UCFLRxVeYcB1H7DbuYZQG-lg?sub_confirmation=1
🎧 PODCAST: Listen to this week's episode on major podcast platforms: lauraflanders.simplecast.com/episodes/from-act-up-to-palestine-sarah-schulman-on-how-to-build-solidarity-across-difference-episode Subscribe today and receive the full, uncut conversation from this week's show: lauraflanders.simplecast.com/episodes/from-act-up-to-palestine-sarah-schulman-on-how-to-build-solidarity-across-difference-full-uncut-conversation
✏️SHOW NOTES: Visit our Patreon for Show Notes and learn more about this week's episode: patreon.com/posts/131774218
📚 Check out our Book of the Week on BOOKSHOP: “The Fantasy and Necessity of Solidarity” by Sarah Schulman: bookshop.org/a/22992/9780593854259
(*Bookshop is an online bookstore with a mission to financially support local, independent bookstores. LF&F is an affiliate of bookshop.org and will receive a small commission if you click through and make a purchase.)
Laura Flanders & Friends is non-commercial independent media that relies on the contributions of viewers and listeners.
Follow the show and Laura Flanders on Bluesky!
https://bsky.app/profile/lauraflanders.org
https://bsky.app/profile/gritlaura.bsky.social
DONATE TODAY at lauraflanders.org/donate or consider becoming a PATREON partner at patreon.com/lauraflandersandfriends
🔔Subscribe to get weekly episodes that prompt you to think critically about the world around you. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to hit the 'Like' button and share it with your network.
📩Newsletter: For more in-depth analysis, including uncut interviews and commentaries, subscribe to our free newsletter at lauraflanders.org.
CREDITS:
Executive Producer: Laura Flanders
Supervising Producer: Sabrina Artel
Senior Producer: Jeremiah Cothren
Senior Consulting Producer: Rory O’Connor
Senior Video Editor: David Neumann
Video Editor: Veronica Delgado
Audio Director: Jeannie Hopper
Development Director: Sarah Miller
Communications Director: Janet Hernandez
0:00 - Defining Solidarity
5:00 - Lessons from ACT UP
10:45 - Fascism and the Costs of Activism
15:30 - Artist Alice Neel, and Schulman's Upbringing
20:00 - Palestinian Liberation
![How to Break the “Cycle” of Police Killing? Listen to Survivors [EXCERPT]](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/s_GmFCalGVc/mqdefault.jpg "How to Break the “Cycle” of Police Killing? Listen to Survivors [EXCERPT]
This conversation is an excerpt from our episode How to Break the ‘Cycle’ of Police Killing? Listen to Survivors. Watch the full report here: https://youtu.be/VBZ2DaGeR_I. This episode first aired November 2025.
https://lauraflanders.substack.com/p/cycle-documentary-police-violence?utm_source=youtube")
![The Forgotten Coup, January 6th & the Small Town Americans on the Frontlines of Democracy [EXCERPT]](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/tegEg4aROIQ/mqdefault.jpg "The Forgotten Coup, January 6th & the Small Town Americans on the Frontlines of Democracy [EXCERPT]
This conversation is an excerpt from our episode The Forgotten Coup, January 6th & the Small Town Americans on the Frontlines of Democracy. Watch the full report here: https://youtu.be/JYqkuSwIauA. This episode first aired July 2022.
https://lauraflanders.substack.com/p/democracy-defense-in-north-carolina?utm_source=youtube")
![A Mountain Is Not a Beach: Media Rules on the Middle East [rewind :: commentary]](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/uHza8T8trok/mqdefault.jpg "A Mountain Is Not a Beach: Media Rules on the Middle East [rewind :: commentary]
The following timely commentary by Laura Flanders aired on GritTV in the summer of 2014. At the same time as the Iraq Sinjar crisis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinjar_massacre) , Gaza was experiencing the 2014 Gaza War (Operation Protective Edge), a 50-day conflict (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gaza_War) between Israel and Hamas that began in July 2014. The war involved intense Israeli airstrikes and a ground invasion in response to Hamas rocket attacks, resulting in over 2,000 Palestinian deaths (mostly civilians) and significant destruction in Gaza. Israeli casualties included 67 soldiers and six civilians. The US response in Gaza was primarily diplomatic.
URGENT REQUEST TO OUR FOLLOWERS: Support independent media in the fight against authoritarianism. Make a contribution to our Resistance Reporting Fund. Our goal is to raise $100K. Were at $35K! Become a sustaining member starting at $5 a month at https://Patreon.com/lauraflandersandfriends ! Or make a one-time donation at https://LauraFlanders.org/Donate
note: The following closing commentary or F-Word from July 2024 Laura dedicated to the late great poet June Jordan. Find out more about her at JuneJordan.net (https://www.junejordan.net/) The episode (https://lauraflanders.org/dorothy-zellner-if-you-only-care-about-your-own-youre-not-kosher/) from 2014 featured an interview with long time civil rights activist Dorothy Zellner (https://lauraflanders.org/dorothy-zellner-if-you-only-care-about-your-own-youre-not-kosher/) about her work for peace and justice in the Middle East. Learn more about Dorothy Zellners formative years in the civil rights movement at the SNCC Digital Gateway (https://snccdigital.org/people/dorothy-zellner/) website.
RELATED EPISODES FROM OUR ARCHIVES:
• Resistance and Revolutionary Poetry with Aja Monet: Watch / Listen (https://lauraflanders.org/resistance-and-revolutionary-poetry-aja-monet/)
• Full Conversation: Angela Davis- A Revolutionary Roadmap for Building a Better Future LISTEN (https://lauraflanders.org/resistance-and-revolutionary-poetry-aja-monet/)
• Not Wanted at Harvard: BIPOC Media on Claudine Gay, Anti-Zionism & Diversity in Education Watch / Listen (https://lauraflanders.org/not-wanted-at-harvard-bipoc-media-on-claudine-gay-anti-zionism-diversity-in-education/)
TRANSCRIPT- CLOSING COMMENTARY, JULY 2014:
Hi, I’m Laura Flanders of GRITtv
“I will not compare slaughter to slaughter. I will not compare death to death. I will not compare I will not compare… “
Welcome to my morning mantra.
It’s been a long hot news summer and it’s important to remember the rules. Under prevailing US media law, you may not compare a killing to a killing. You may not say the word Palestinian for example and then in the same sentence, say Yazidi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Yazidis) .
You may not compare. You may not compare… The rules are very clear, especially when it comes to the Middle East.
I, for example, may not compare destruction to destruction. It is best, in fact, if I do not even contemplate or wonder about men and women and children trapped without food and medicine and drinking water under siege on a mountain top, and at the same time, contemplate or wonder about men and women and children trapped without food and medicine and drinking water under siege on a place near a beach.
A mountain under siege is not to be compared to a beach besieged. That’s simple enough. After all, a mountain is very different from a beach.
I will not compare. I will not compare… In particular I will not compare a destroyed mosque in Mosul with a destroyed mosque in Khuzaa. And I absolutely will not compare the motivations of the uniformed soldiers whom I hear laugh and cheer on a videotape out of Gaza as they explode that mosque in Khuzaa, with the motivations of any men anywhere committing war crimes.- Even if I can’t get that laughter and cheering out of my head.
I may not compare, I may not compare. Why? Because comparisons are odious, of course, and politics is complicated.
You heard the president, the U.S. cannot and should not intervene every time there’s a crisis in the world.”
Some require the U.S. to act to help the people besieged. Some require the US to act to help the people doing the besieging.
To compare is to risk blurring the differences and the differences are all important.
To recap the rules: it is wrong to compare.
You can not say: a life is a life.
You can not say words like oil and money and markets.
You can not ask what’s the difference between a mountain and a beach.
I’m Laura Flanders. Today’s commentary is dedicated to the late great poet June Jordan. Find out more about her at JuneJordan.net (https://www.junejordan.net/)
Laura Flanders and Friends airs weekly on public TV, YouTube, community radio, and available as an audio podcast. In addition to the episode podcast, subscribers receive uncut conversations...")
