Uploaded June 2025 | Updated September 2026, 1 day ago
How do astronomers detect the conditions for life and technosignatures on exoplanets many lightyears away? What conditions on earth give us clues to how life might have formed elsewhere? How do intelligent civilisations evolve to technomaturity before they destroy themselves?
So in this episode we have the mysterious arising of life and eventually intelligent life on our planet to try and explain, to then apply that to our search for other intelligent life in the cosmos. So to explain that we’re going to be getting into the co-evolution of the geosphere and the biosphere on earth and their corresponding feedback loops; the possibility of planetary level intelligence; the difficulty of laying a technosphere on top of the geo and biosphere, and the risk of civilisations wiping themselves out before learning how to harmonise the technosphere with the biosphere; We’ll be looking at the changes in the field of SETI (the Search for Extraterrestrial Terrestrial Intelligence), since we can now identify potentially life sustaining exo-planets in nearer parts of the galaxy; we’re going to get into the newly funded search for techno signatures from advanced civilisations, and potential space junk from the many civilisations that presumably didn’t make it; lastly we’re going to discuss recent claims of ancient and alleged present visitations to earth by extra terrestrial intelligence.
Fortunately to face these tough and complex issues, our guest is a world specialist in astrobiology, with a talent for making these topics fun and imaginative, an astrophysics professor at the University of Rochester, Professor Adam Frank. He’s the author of over 200 scientific papers and 6 books for the general public including, “The Blind Spot: why science cannot ignore human experience” and “The Little book of Aliens” which we’ll be focussing on today. He’s also an award winning science communicator, on a mission to raise public awareness about existential risk and science in general.
What we discussed:
00:00 Intro.
05:00 Sprituality with Science not against it.
05:20 The importance of experience.
07:00 The limits between the expressible and the inexpressible.
07:48 The blindspot of science towards life.
09:10 Semantic Information: life as self organising, autonomous agents.
11:20 The mystery of being.
15:00 There’s stuff you can’t talk about - there’s only the silence
16:20 The Basian probability of other life in the universe.
20:00 The ingredients for life on this earth.
22:30 The codependence between Geo and Biosphere - Sarah Walker.
22:60 Gaian feedback loops -Life created the atmosphere.
27:00 The earth is not conscious but it is an agent - it has a sensorium, it can self regulate.
29:45 Mind is a process, it’s not just in the head.
33:25 The fluidity of individuality - David Krakauer.
34:30 Distributed Cognition - bacteria, fungal networks.
36:00 The difference between mere energy exchanges and autonomous complex adaptive systems.
38:30 A fundamental reimagining of what we mean by ‘Nature’.
39:30 There is no disembodied perspective, science works through embedded agents.
41:00 Geosphere to Biosphere to technosphere maturity.
47:30 The biosphere offers a model for what planetary intelligence looks like.
48:00 The history of search for extra terrestrial Intelligence, SETI
49:00 The Drake equation - 7 requirements for intelligence life.
53:45 We’ve never looked - a tiny amount of the sky has been studied.
54:00 Exoplanets: searching for biosgnatures and techno signatures.
56:00 Technospheres: Kardeshev scale and Dyson Spheres.
59:00 Techno junk from dead civilisations.
01:02:30 UFO’s need more data to be taken seriously.
01:08:20 UFO’s could be surveilling their spy tech.
01:10:00 Pros and Cons of solar system settlement.
References:
Adam Frank, Evan Thompson, Marcelo Gleiser, “The Blind Spot: Why science cannot ignore human experience”.
https://g.co/kgs/TrrJGJr
Adam Frank, “The Little Book of Aliens”
https://g.co/kgs/EErKvvn
Adam Frank, David Grinspoon, Sarah Walker - Intelligence as a planetary scale process
researchgate.net/publication/358966750_Intelligence_as_a_planetary_scale_process_-_CORRIGENDUM
Lynn Margulis - Gaia Theorist
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis
David Krakauer et al, ‘An information theory view of individuality’.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32212028
Project Ozma - Frank Drake
seti.org/project-ozma
Jason Wright - SETI meta-analysis
https://sites.psu.edu/astrowright/
exoplanets.org
Adam Frank - New York Times ‘I’m a Physicist Who Searches for Aliens. U.F.O.s Don’t Impress Me’ article
nytimes.com/2021/05/30/opinion/ufo-sightings-report.html
The expanse TV series - settled solar system
tv.apple.com/it/show/the-expanse/umc.cmc.1ixz96nx5fk3uz3huu99vqpbs?l=en
How do astronomers detect the conditions for life and technosignatures on exoplanets many lightyears away? What conditions on earth give us clues to how life might have formed elsewhere? How do intelligent civilisations evolve to technomaturity before they destroy themselves?
So in this episode we have the mysterious arising of life and eventually intelligent life on our planet to try and explain, to then apply that to our search for other intelligent life in the cosmos. So to explain that we’re going to be getting into the co-evolution of the geosphere and the biosphere on earth and their corresponding feedback loops; the possibility of planetary level intelligence; the difficulty of laying a technosphere on top of the geo and biosphere, and the risk of civilisations wiping themselves out before learning how to harmonise the technosphere with the biosphere; We’ll be looking at the changes in the field of SETI (the Search for Extraterrestrial Terrestrial Intelligence), since we can now identify potentially life sustaining exo-planets in nearer parts of the galaxy; we’re going to get into the newly funded search for techno signatures from advanced civilisations, and potential space junk from the many civilisations that presumably didn’t make it; lastly we’re going to discuss recent claims of ancient and alleged present visitations to earth by extra terrestrial intelligence.
Fortunately to face these tough and complex issues, our guest is a world specialist in astrobiology, with a talent for making these topics fun and imaginative, an astrophysics professor at the University of Rochester, Professor Adam Frank. He’s the author of over 200 scientific papers and 6 books for the general public including, “The Blind Spot: why science cannot ignore human experience” and “The Little book of Aliens” which we’ll be focussing on today. He’s also an award winning science communicator, on a mission to raise public awareness about existential risk and science in general.
What we discussed:
00:00 Intro.
05:00 Sprituality with Science not against it.
05:20 The importance of experience.
07:00 The limits between the expressible and the inexpressible.
07:48 The blindspot of science towards life.
09:10 Semantic Information: life as self organising, autonomous agents.
11:20 The mystery of being.
15:00 There’s stuff you can’t talk about - there’s only the silence
16:20 The Basian probability of other life in the universe.
20:00 The ingredients for life on this earth.
22:30 The codependence between Geo and Biosphere - Sarah Walker.
22:60 Gaian feedback loops -Life created the atmosphere.
27:00 The earth is not conscious but it is an agent - it has a sensorium, it can self regulate.
29:45 Mind is a process, it’s not just in the head.
33:25 The fluidity of individuality - David Krakauer.
34:30 Distributed Cognition - bacteria, fungal networks.
36:00 The difference between mere energy exchanges and autonomous complex adaptive systems.
38:30 A fundamental reimagining of what we mean by ‘Nature’.
39:30 There is no disembodied perspective, science works through embedded agents.
41:00 Geosphere to Biosphere to technosphere maturity.
47:30 The biosphere offers a model for what planetary intelligence looks like.
48:00 The history of search for extra terrestrial Intelligence, SETI
49:00 The Drake equation - 7 requirements for intelligence life.
53:45 We’ve never looked - a tiny amount of the sky has been studied.
54:00 Exoplanets: searching for biosgnatures and techno signatures.
56:00 Technospheres: Kardeshev scale and Dyson Spheres.
59:00 Techno junk from dead civilisations.
01:02:30 UFO’s need more data to be taken seriously.
01:08:20 UFO’s could be surveilling their spy tech.
01:10:00 Pros and Cons of solar system settlement.
References:
Adam Frank, Evan Thompson, Marcelo Gleiser, “The Blind Spot: Why science cannot ignore human experience”.
https://g.co/kgs/TrrJGJr
Adam Frank, “The Little Book of Aliens”
https://g.co/kgs/EErKvvn
Adam Frank, David Grinspoon, Sarah Walker - Intelligence as a planetary scale process
researchgate.net/publication/358966750_Intelligence_as_a_planetary_scale_process_-_CORRIGENDUM
Lynn Margulis - Gaia Theorist
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis
David Krakauer et al, ‘An information theory view of individuality’.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32212028
Project Ozma - Frank Drake
seti.org/project-ozma
Jason Wright - SETI meta-analysis
https://sites.psu.edu/astrowright/
exoplanets.org
Adam Frank - New York Times ‘I’m a Physicist Who Searches for Aliens. U.F.O.s Don’t Impress Me’ article
nytimes.com/2021/05/30/opinion/ufo-sightings-report.html
The expanse TV series - settled solar system
tv.apple.com/it/show/the-expanse/umc.cmc.1ixz96nx5fk3uz3huu99vqpbs?l=en
