Uploaded January 2019 | Updated September 2026, 1 week ago
We’re interviewing key players in the new economy, to:
a) bring their work to a wider audience
b) try to find ways to co-ordinate their efforts
c) stimulate debate d) help to grow the new economy.
By new economy, we mean an economy whose component parts are democratic and non-extractive, rather than undemocratic and extractive.
Here, Dave Darby of Lowimpact.org chats with Trevor Hilder, founder of Web of Wealth and specialist in the viable system model (VSM). The VSM can be used to federate and grow the new, non-extractive economy.
Here's a transcript of the interview: lowimpact.org/viable-system-model-trevor-hilder
Highlights
1. The VSM says that a fundamental, foundational purpose has to be there, and that is to remain viable in the environment you find yourself in.
2. The model encapsulates the idea of recursion. You can think of recursion as Russian dolls nested inside each other.
3. The viability rules are operating all the time, whether we’re conscious of it or not. But if we are conscious of it, we can do better than if we’re not.
4. It’s pretty clear to anyone using these diagnostics, that the causes of the crash in 2007-8 have not been understood, so that the financial system itself is not a viable system. In other words, it’s going to crash again.
5. VSM is a good match with mutual credit - a much more viable way of thinking about the money system than the one we’ve got at the moment.
Dave Darby
lowimpact.org
noncorporate.org
Trevor Hilder
webofwealth.org
Other sites mentioned:
Jon Walker’s VSM guide - esrad.org.uk/resources/vsmg_3/screen.php?page=introduction
VSM 5 systems - esrad.org.uk/resources/vsmg_3/screen.php?page=0cybeyes
Metacurrency Project - metacurrency.org
Holochain - holochain.org
Mondragon - mondragon-corporation.com/en
Berkshares - berkshares.org
The Preston model - preston.gov.uk/thecouncil/the-preston-model/preston-model
We’re interviewing key players in the new economy, to:
a) bring their work to a wider audience
b) try to find ways to co-ordinate their efforts
c) stimulate debate d) help to grow the new economy.
By new economy, we mean an economy whose component parts are democratic and non-extractive, rather than undemocratic and extractive.
Here, Dave Darby of Lowimpact.org chats with Trevor Hilder, founder of Web of Wealth and specialist in the viable system model (VSM). The VSM can be used to federate and grow the new, non-extractive economy.
Here's a transcript of the interview: lowimpact.org/viable-system-model-trevor-hilder
Highlights
1. The VSM says that a fundamental, foundational purpose has to be there, and that is to remain viable in the environment you find yourself in.
2. The model encapsulates the idea of recursion. You can think of recursion as Russian dolls nested inside each other.
3. The viability rules are operating all the time, whether we’re conscious of it or not. But if we are conscious of it, we can do better than if we’re not.
4. It’s pretty clear to anyone using these diagnostics, that the causes of the crash in 2007-8 have not been understood, so that the financial system itself is not a viable system. In other words, it’s going to crash again.
5. VSM is a good match with mutual credit - a much more viable way of thinking about the money system than the one we’ve got at the moment.
Dave Darby
lowimpact.org
noncorporate.org
Trevor Hilder
webofwealth.org
Other sites mentioned:
Jon Walker’s VSM guide - esrad.org.uk/resources/vsmg_3/screen.php?page=introduction
VSM 5 systems - esrad.org.uk/resources/vsmg_3/screen.php?page=0cybeyes
Metacurrency Project - metacurrency.org
Holochain - holochain.org
Mondragon - mondragon-corporation.com/en
Berkshares - berkshares.org
The Preston model - preston.gov.uk/thecouncil/the-preston-model/preston-model
