Uploaded January 2026 | Updated September 2026, 3 days ago
In this discussion, participants compared Socrates with epic heroes. Achilles was a prime example, for his ability in dialogue. Participants also considered the way dikē would be understood by Plato and in Homeric and Hesiodic poetry. Another hero to be compared with Socrates is Odysseus, but there is Odysseus' craftiness as well as his craft, and he can also be compared with another culture hero, Palamedes. Discussion turned to theōriā and heroes, Theseus as the civic model for the cult hero in the state of Athens, and Socrates exemplifying a new model of theōriā.
Gregory Nagy and the team considered additional passages that could be used as examples of heroes as saviors, including Hippolytus and Phaedra, Menelaos speaking about Nestor, the whole of Iliad and Odyssey, and words as saviors.
Mentioned in this discussion:
Richard P. Martin. 1989. The Language of Heroes: Speech and Performance in the Iliad. Online at the Center for Hellenic Studies.
https://nrs.harvard.edu/urn-3:hul.ebook:CHS_Martin.The_Language_of_Heroes.1989
Aristotle fragment: quoted in Demetrius of Phaleron Libro de Elocutione ('On Style') 3.144
“The myth of Ēr” in Plato Republic, 10.614b–10.621d
Available on Perseus, starting here:
https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0168%3Abook%3D10%3Asection%3D614b
Recorded in Spring 2021 during v15 of the MOOC, The Ancient Greek Hero in 24 Hours, focusing on Hours 22, 23 and 24, and the Discussion Questions.
With Gregory Nagy, Keith DeStone, and members of the HeroesX Team.
In this discussion, participants compared Socrates with epic heroes. Achilles was a prime example, for his ability in dialogue. Participants also considered the way dikē would be understood by Plato and in Homeric and Hesiodic poetry. Another hero to be compared with Socrates is Odysseus, but there is Odysseus' craftiness as well as his craft, and he can also be compared with another culture hero, Palamedes. Discussion turned to theōriā and heroes, Theseus as the civic model for the cult hero in the state of Athens, and Socrates exemplifying a new model of theōriā.
Gregory Nagy and the team considered additional passages that could be used as examples of heroes as saviors, including Hippolytus and Phaedra, Menelaos speaking about Nestor, the whole of Iliad and Odyssey, and words as saviors.
Mentioned in this discussion:
Richard P. Martin. 1989. The Language of Heroes: Speech and Performance in the Iliad. Online at the Center for Hellenic Studies.
https://nrs.harvard.edu/urn-3:hul.ebook:CHS_Martin.The_Language_of_Heroes.1989
Aristotle fragment: quoted in Demetrius of Phaleron Libro de Elocutione ('On Style') 3.144
“The myth of Ēr” in Plato Republic, 10.614b–10.621d
Available on Perseus, starting here:
https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0168%3Abook%3D10%3Asection%3D614b
Recorded in Spring 2021 during v15 of the MOOC, The Ancient Greek Hero in 24 Hours, focusing on Hours 22, 23 and 24, and the Discussion Questions.
With Gregory Nagy, Keith DeStone, and members of the HeroesX Team.
