Uploaded December 2025 | Updated September 2026, 2 weeks ago

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If you care about resisting autocracy and building democracy, the U.S. has much to learn from Hungary. While Donald Trump rails against Europe, he and Hungary’s strongman leader, Viktor Orbán, have praised each other for years. Anti-democratic, anti-immigrant, anti-woman, anti-queer — Orbán and Trump came to power on parallel tracks with similar values. In their first interview together, Ezra Levin, the co-founder of Indivisible (the group behind No Kings!) and László Upor, a leader in one of Hungary’s most creative and visible resistance efforts, share their experiences of resisting authoritarianism. Upor is former Vice Rector and Acting Rector of the University of Theatre and Film Arts in Budapest — the one university that fought back when the Orbán administration began taking control of Hungary’s universities. Levin is the co-founder and co-executive director of Indivisible, the grassroots movement behind such protests as the historic Hands Off and No Kings rallies. From the principles of their organizing to frog suits and caution tape, today’s episode is a masterclass in creative resistance. Plus a commentary from Laura on the leaked memo from the DOJ that charges the IRS with going after the funders of nonprofit organizations.

“Our enemy in this isn't Trump, it's not the Republicans. It's not the broader regime. Our enemy is this sense of cynicism or fatalism or nihilism . . . I do think a core principle in our communication philosophy is convincing people, you have power, you just gotta use it. The best way to use it is in concert with a lot of other people in your community.” - Ezra Levin

“You have to laugh at them, not be afraid of them . . . They don't understand mirth. They don't understand the derision. They think they are invincible. And when we don't give in, they don't understand what's going on.” - László Upor

Guests:
Ezra Levin: Co-Founder & Co-Executive Director, Indivisible
László Upor: Former Vice Rector & Acting Rector, University of Theatre and Film Arts (SzFE), Budapest, Hungary

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CREDITS:
Executive Producer: Laura Flanders
Supervising Producer: Sabrina Artel
Senior Producer: Jeremiah Cothren
Senior Consulting Producer: Rory O’Connor
Senior Video Editor: David Neumann
Video Editor: Veronica Delgado
Audio Director: Jeannie Hopper
Development Director: Sarah Miller
Communications Director: Janet Hernandez

0:00 - The Parallels Between Donald Trump and Viktor Orban
5:17 - Indivisible’s Mission
10:45 - Mirth as a Tool for Resistance
16:53 - Building Alternatives in Authoritarian Times
21:52 - The Future's Story of Today