The Convocation Unscripted
The Long Shadow of 9/11
updated
Jim Wallis was joined by the co-host of @The_Convocation : Diana Butler Bass, Kristin Du Mez, Robert P. Jones, and Jemar Tisby
You can follow their work at: convocation.substack.com
Check out more episodes of the Soul of Nation wherever you listen to podcasts: https://faithandjustice.georgetown.edu/media/the-soul-of-the-nation/
Want to experience a celebration of an authentic Christian faith that supports a vision of a pluralistic democracy? Join us for the Faith and Democracy Tour, featuring:
Award-winning authors and co-hosts of The Convocation Unscripted:
Diana Butler Bass, Author of Freeing Jesus
Kristin Du Mez, Author of Jesus and John Wayne
Robert P. Jones, Author of The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy
Jemar Tisby, Author of The Spirit of Justice
We’ll have great music, inspiring conversations, and opportunities for meeting like-minded people who are connecting their faith to the work of strengthening democracy.
Want to experience a celebration of an authentic Christian faith that supports a vision of a pluralistic democracy? Join us for the Faith and Democracy Tour, featuring:
Award-winning authors and co-hosts of The Convocation Unscripted:
Diana Butler Bass, Author of Freeing Jesus
Kristin Du Mez, Author of Jesus and John Wayne
Robert P. Jones, Author of The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy
Jemar Tisby, Author of The Spirit of Justice
We’ll have great music, inspiring conversations, and opportunities for meeting like-minded people who are connecting their faith to the work of strengthening democracy.
Diana Butler Bass hosts this “grab bag” episode with Jemar Tisby, Robert P. Jones, and Kristin Du Mez. Jemar talks about his new book, "The Spirit of Justice: True Stories of Faith, Race, and Resistance,” which was just published this week. And Robby gives a preview of his analysis of Christian nationalism in the new Afterword in the paperback edition of "The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future,” which will be published next week. We also talk about Trump’s awkward flip-flops on abortion--which are anything but “pro-life”--but which seem not to matter at all to his white Christian Right base. In the second half of the show, we tackle the disintegration of the “church growth” industry in the wake of the rapid decline of white evangelicals over the past two decades, delve into a 2016 interview J.D. Vance gave about his conversion from evangelicalism to high-brow Catholicism, and flag the growing evidence of Russian money stoking some of the loudest online voices on the right.
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
Podcast Page Link: redcircle.com/shows/369e63ca-37ea-47bf-97d1-32bbb7cff752
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
From this week's episode of The Convocation Unscripted "A Test of Faith, the Christian Kindness in Truth Telling, and a preview of “For Our Daughters" - youtu.be/JNm0g74lABY
In this special episode of the Convocation Unscripted, we record a live in-person conversation from Washington, DC. The four of us came to town to participate in “A Test of Faith: A Summit to Defend Democracy,” which was organized by Rev. Jim Wallis, Director of the Center for Faith and Justice at Georgetown University. The summit included the unveiling of a new statement presenting a theologically centered Christian defense of Democracy and a rich set of panel discussions. Kristin Du Mez kicks off the conversation, describing her experience as one of the drafters of the statement. Jemar Tisby and Robby Jones talk about the problematic term “polarization,” which implies a “both-sidesism” that distorts the moral nature of the choices we are facing in our contemporary politics. As Jemar often notes, “Justice takes sides.” Diana Butler Bass talks about the politeness and niceness pervading particularly white mainline Protestant churches that prevents Christians from calling out injustice and argues that confrontation, done rightly, can be an act of deep Christian kindness. Finally, Kristin Du Mez rounds out the conversation by giving us a preview of her new documentary short film, “For Our Daughters,” which discusses the sexual abuse scandal in white evangelical denominations. This special in-person episode covers a lot of other ground as well, including anti-semitic statements Trump made at a conference to fight anti-semitism and the disturbing racist and misogynistic comments made by Lt. Gov. Mark Robinson that were recently uncovered by CNN. The Convocation Unscripted team would like to say a heartfelt "thank you" to Jesse Dollemore and Brittany Page of the “I Doubt It” podcast for the generous use of their studio and for editing assistance for this episode. - The Convocation Unscripted [S1E10]
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
Podcast Page Link: redcircle.com/shows/369e63ca-37ea-47bf-97d1-32bbb7cff752
In this special episode of the Convocation Unscripted, we record a live in-person conversation from Washington, DC. The four of us came to town to participate in “A Test of Faith: A Summit to Defend Democracy,” which was organized by Rev. Jim Wallis, Director of the Center for Faith and Justice at Georgetown University. The summit included the unveiling of a new statement presenting a theologically centered Christian defense of Democracy and a rich set of panel discussions. Kristin Du Mez kicks off the conversation, describing her experience as one of the drafters of the statement. Jemar Tisby and Robby Jones talk about the problematic term “polarization,” which implies a “both-sidesism” that distorts the moral nature of the choices we are facing in our contemporary politics. As Jemar often notes, “Justice takes sides.” Diana Butler Bass talks about the politeness and niceness pervading particularly white mainline Protestant churches that prevents Christians from calling out injustice and argues that confrontation, done rightly, can be an act of deep Christian kindness. Finally, Kristin Du Mez rounds out the conversation by giving us a preview of her new documentary short film, “For Our Daughters,” which discusses the sexual abuse scandal in white evangelical denominations. This special in-person episode covers a lot of other ground as well, including anti-semitic statements Trump made at a conference to fight anti-semitism and the disturbing racist and misogynistic comments made by Lt. Gov. Mark Robinson that were recently uncovered by CNN. The Convocation Unscripted team would like to say a heartfelt "thank you" to Jesse Dollemore and Brittany Page of the “I Doubt It” podcast for the generous use of their studio and for editing assistance for this episode. - The Convocation Unscripted [S1E10]
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
Podcast Page Link: redcircle.com/shows/369e63ca-37ea-47bf-97d1-32bbb7cff752
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
Diana Butler Bass hosts this “grab bag” episode with Jemar Tisby, Robert P. Jones, and Kristin Du Mez. Jemar talks about his new book, "The Spirit of Justice: True Stories of Faith, Race, and Resistance,” which was just published this week. And Robby gives a preview of his analysis of Christian nationalism in the new Afterword in the paperback edition of "The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future,” which will be published next week. We also talk about Trump’s awkward flip-flops on abortion--which are anything but “pro-life”--but which seem not to matter at all to his white Christian Right base. In the second half of the show, we tackle the disintegration of the “church growth” industry in the wake of the rapid decline of white evangelicals over the past two decades, delve into a 2016 interview J.D. Vance gave about his conversion from evangelicalism to high-brow Catholicism, and flag the growing evidence of Russian money stoking some of the loudest online voices on the right.
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
Podcast Page Link: redcircle.com/shows/369e63ca-37ea-47bf-97d1-32bbb7cff752
Diana Butler Bass hosts this “grab bag” episode with Jemar Tisby, Robert P. Jones, and Kristin Du Mez. Jemar talks about his new book, "The Spirit of Justice: True Stories of Faith, Race, and Resistance,” which was just published this week. And Robby gives a preview of his analysis of Christian nationalism in the new Afterword in the paperback edition of "The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future,” which will be published next week. We also talk about Trump’s awkward flip-flops on abortion--which are anything but “pro-life”--but which seem not to matter at all to his white Christian Right base. In the second half of the show, we tackle the disintegration of the “church growth” industry in the wake of the rapid decline of white evangelicals over the past two decades, delve into a 2016 interview J.D. Vance gave about his conversion from evangelicalism to high-brow Catholicism, and flag the growing evidence of Russian money stoking some of the loudest online voices on the right.
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
Podcast Page Link: redcircle.com/shows/369e63ca-37ea-47bf-97d1-32bbb7cff752
Diana Butler Bass hosts this “grab bag” episode with Jemar Tisby, Robert P. Jones, and Kristin Du Mez. Jemar talks about his new book, "The Spirit of Justice: True Stories of Faith, Race, and Resistance,” which was just published this week. And Robby gives a preview of his analysis of Christian nationalism in the new Afterword in the paperback edition of "The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future,” which will be published next week. We also talk about Trump’s awkward flip-flops on abortion--which are anything but “pro-life”--but which seem not to matter at all to his white Christian Right base. In the second half of the show, we tackle the disintegration of the “church growth” industry in the wake of the rapid decline of white evangelicals over the past two decades, delve into a 2016 interview J.D. Vance gave about his conversion from evangelicalism to high-brow Catholicism, and flag the growing evidence of Russian money stoking some of the loudest online voices on the right.
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
emar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
Podcast Page Link: redcircle.com/shows/369e63ca-37ea-47bf-97d1-32bbb7cff752
Follow: The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
Christian Right leaders still regularly accuse Democrats of being godless liberals, or some similar phrase. Trump has claimed that no true Christian should be able to vote for a Democrat. But as Kristin Du Mez, who was on the ground at the Democratic National Convention, reports, Christianity and other religions are alive and well among not only the rank and file but the high profile speakers in Chicago this week. Similarly, Jemar Tisby talks about his experience as part of the “Evangelicals for Harris” group, which has been the target of attacks by the Christian Right merely because of its existence. Robert P. Jones also brought in the numbers, emphasizing—despite the Republican stereotypes--that 70% of Democrats identify with some religious tradition. As Jones notes, when Republican activists say the Democratic Party is devoid of Christians, what they really mean is that they are lacking white evangelical Protestant Christians (who only make up 4% of Democrats vs. 30% of Republicans). Jemar, Kristin, and Robby rounded out the show by talking about the different way religion functioned at the Republican vs. Democratic national conventions—weaponized at the former to draw us/them boundaries versus an inclusive image at the latter, emphasizing America as a place where all belong.
Subscribe to the Podcast:
Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-convocation-unscripted/id1763709612
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/755gV7A7NXkuzq7jokYkHD
Amazon: music.amazon.com/podcasts/4c5b0834-ba9b-4a56-945e-afdc5b9db970/the-convocation-unscripted
Podcast Page Link: redcircle.com/shows/369e63ca-37ea-47bf-97d1-32bbb7cff752
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
Christian Right leaders still regularly accuse Democrats of being godless liberals, or some similar phrase. Trump has claimed that no true Christian should be able to vote for a Democrat. But as Kristin Du Mez, who was on the ground at the Democratic National Convention, reports, Christianity and other religions are alive and well among not only the rank and file but the high profile speakers in Chicago this week. Similarly, Jemar Tisby talks about his experience as part of the “Evangelicals for Harris” group, which has been the target of attacks by the Christian Right merely because of its existence. Robert P. Jones also brought in the numbers, emphasizing—despite the Republican stereotypes--that 70% of Democrats identify with some religious tradition. As Jones notes, when Republican activists say the Democratic Party is devoid of Christians, what they really mean is that they are lacking white evangelical Protestant Christians (who only make up 4% of Democrats vs. 30% of Republicans). Jemar, Kristin, and Robby rounded out the show by talking about the different way religion functioned at the Republican vs. Democratic national conventions—weaponized at the former to draw us/them boundaries versus an inclusive image at the latter, emphasizing America as a place where all belong.
Subscribe to the Podcast:
Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-convocation-unscripted/id1763709612
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/755gV7A7NXkuzq7jokYkHD
Amazon: music.amazon.com/podcasts/4c5b0834-ba9b-4a56-945e-afdc5b9db970/the-convocation-unscripted
Podcast Page Link: redcircle.com/shows/369e63ca-37ea-47bf-97d1-32bbb7cff752
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
Follow:
The Convocation - convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones - robertpjones.substack.com
Diana Butler Bass - dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez - kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby - JemarTisby.Substack.com
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
We also discuss Project 2025. It’s finally hitting the mainstream, even though we and others have been warning about it for far longer. What is it, and why does it pose a threat long before and after the November 2024 election?
Follow:
The Convocation- convocation.substack.com
Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net
Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com
Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com
Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com
This week at @The_Convocation Unscripted, Diana Butler Bass co-hosts a conversation with Jemar Tisby, Robert P. Jones, and Kristin Du Mez about the bewildering and painful experience so many have had when a congregation or denomination declares there is no longer any place for them because of their beliefs or identity—or even their questions. We talk about our own reasons for staying, the challenging but rewarding journey through the wilderness after leaving, and the possibilities of finding another spiritual home.
But what does it all mean:
*For our country as a whole?
*For the political party who is poised to coronate Trump as their candidate just four days after his sentencing?
*And for Trump’s white Christian supporters who in the not so distant past crowed about their integrity as “values voters”?
Join us for a special edition of our new podcast “The Convocation Unscripted,” where Jemar Tisby, Kristin Du Mez, Robert P. Jones, and Diana Butler Bass talk about this historic moment and its implications for the presidential election and the future.


