Uploaded September 2026 | Updated September 2026, 3 weeks ago
James Daunt opened a small bookshop in London in 1990, a decision he cheerfully calls deeply foolish and born of naivety. He now runs Waterstones and Barnes & Noble, which is to say he runs many of the biggest bookstores in the English-speaking world. He says he has spent exactly zero on marketing for either of them. (The PR department has one assistant, who is also his assistant, and the executive team's.)
Why did James Daunt quit a job he loved at J.P. Morgan to sell books? What did he do on his first day at Waterstones headquarters? And why does he insist that the same book arriving in a smiley cardboard envelope is worse than the one you carried out of a shop? Stephen Dubner meets James at the Barnes & Noble on Broadway and 82nd to find out.
James explains why the people running Waterstones before him were good at their jobs and still destroying the business, why he threw out the pine tables in the Barnes & Noble stores and is now spending a fortune putting them back, and why he leaves BookTok entirely to the booksellers “with the blue hair.” There are now more than 700 Barnes & Noble stores across the country and dozens more are opening this year. James Daunt says it will never be massively profitable and that was never the point.
#betterinperson #freakonomicsradio #jamesdaunt
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ABOUT BETTER IN PERSON:
Everyone has a public story. Stephen Dubner wants the rest.
On Better in Person, Dubner invites remarkable people into his home for a kind of conversation that’s hard to find: curious, free-wheeling, even profound. They talk, play, eat and drink, argue and laugh. The result? Less interview, more shared discovery.
This is how a conversation works.
FOLLOW BETTER IN PERSON:
Instagram: instagram.com/betterinpersontv
TikTok: tiktok.com/betterinpersontv
FOLLOW STEPHEN DUBNER:
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Substack: stephendubner.substack.com
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Threads: threads.com/@freakonomics
CHAPTERS:
0:00 Meet James Daunt
3:28 Building Daunt Books & His Business Philosophy
6:16 Saving Waterstones From Collapse
9:26 Reinventing How Bookstores Are Run
11:41 Saving Barnes & Noble
12:49 Why Bookstores Can Compete With Amazon
15:30 Why James Daunt Rejects Conventional Marketing
17:42 BookTok & Giving Booksellers Creative Freedom
19:30 Why Bookstores & Physical Books Still Matter
20:46 Barnes & Noble’s Comeback & the Future of Bookselling
22:11 Bookstores as Community Spaces
23:22 Physical Books in a Digital & AI-Driven World
26:01 Mistakes, Failure & the Value of Moving Slowly
27:42 Dream Dinner Guests & Favorite Writers
28:48 Commercial vs. Literary Books
Amazon Was Supposed to Kill Off Bookstores. James Daunt Had Other Plans. | Better in Person
youtu.be/pqii7Qr7B-o
James Daunt opened a small bookshop in London in 1990, a decision he cheerfully calls deeply foolish and born of naivety. He now runs Waterstones and Barnes & Noble, which is to say he runs many of the biggest bookstores in the English-speaking world. He says he has spent exactly zero on marketing for either of them. (The PR department has one assistant, who is also his assistant, and the executive team's.)
Why did James Daunt quit a job he loved at J.P. Morgan to sell books? What did he do on his first day at Waterstones headquarters? And why does he insist that the same book arriving in a smiley cardboard envelope is worse than the one you carried out of a shop? Stephen Dubner meets James at the Barnes & Noble on Broadway and 82nd to find out.
James explains why the people running Waterstones before him were good at their jobs and still destroying the business, why he threw out the pine tables in the Barnes & Noble stores and is now spending a fortune putting them back, and why he leaves BookTok entirely to the booksellers “with the blue hair.” There are now more than 700 Barnes & Noble stores across the country and dozens more are opening this year. James Daunt says it will never be massively profitable and that was never the point.
#betterinperson #freakonomicsradio #jamesdaunt
Airs weekly on Tuesdays. Don't miss an episode! Subscribe NOW: youtube.com/channel/UCXjf7anLJA4NqUv8kPFIJWA?sub_confirmation=1
Introducing ChatGPT Work - Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Download the new ChatGPT desktop app today at chatgpt.com
ABOUT BETTER IN PERSON:
Everyone has a public story. Stephen Dubner wants the rest.
On Better in Person, Dubner invites remarkable people into his home for a kind of conversation that’s hard to find: curious, free-wheeling, even profound. They talk, play, eat and drink, argue and laugh. The result? Less interview, more shared discovery.
This is how a conversation works.
FOLLOW BETTER IN PERSON:
Instagram: instagram.com/betterinpersontv
TikTok: tiktok.com/betterinpersontv
FOLLOW STEPHEN DUBNER:
Instagram: instagram.com/stephenjdubner
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/stephen-dubner-2a066578
Substack: stephendubner.substack.com
FOLLOW FREAKONOMICS:
Instagram: instagram.com/freakonomics
Facebook: facebook.com/freakonomics
TikTok: tiktok.com/@freakonomicsradio
Twitter: twitter.com/freakonomics
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/freakonomics-media
Threads: threads.com/@freakonomics
CHAPTERS:
0:00 Meet James Daunt
3:28 Building Daunt Books & His Business Philosophy
6:16 Saving Waterstones From Collapse
9:26 Reinventing How Bookstores Are Run
11:41 Saving Barnes & Noble
12:49 Why Bookstores Can Compete With Amazon
15:30 Why James Daunt Rejects Conventional Marketing
17:42 BookTok & Giving Booksellers Creative Freedom
19:30 Why Bookstores & Physical Books Still Matter
20:46 Barnes & Noble’s Comeback & the Future of Bookselling
22:11 Bookstores as Community Spaces
23:22 Physical Books in a Digital & AI-Driven World
26:01 Mistakes, Failure & the Value of Moving Slowly
27:42 Dream Dinner Guests & Favorite Writers
28:48 Commercial vs. Literary Books
Amazon Was Supposed to Kill Off Bookstores. James Daunt Had Other Plans. | Better in Person
youtu.be/pqii7Qr7B-o
