The Retro Wrestling Archive
World Championship Wrestling 9/25/82
updated
This one is different because Joe isn’t just another guest. Mike explains right up front that Joe is part of his own story, one of the people who helped him along the path that eventually led to this show and the Retro Wrestling Archive Podcast Network. Their friendship goes back more than 30 years, and that history gives the episode a warm, familiar, “road story” feel from the very beginning.
By the end, this episode is really about connection: fathers and sons, friends who become family, fans who become historians, commentators who become voices of a scene, and small town wrestling shows that become memories people carry with them. Joe Sousa’s story runs through San Francisco, Portland, Humboldt County, APW, WCWC, Cauliflower Alley, and Rumble in the Redwoods, but the throughline is simple: he loves wrestling, he respects the fans, and he wants the stories to be told right.
For fans of Portland Wrestling, San Francisco wrestling, Pat Patterson, Ray Stevens, Roddy Piper, Don Owen, Roy Shire, Rumble in the Redwoods, West Coast independent wrestling, old school commentary, and the people who keep regional wrestling history alive, this episode is a must listen.
Joe Sousa’s story is the real deal.
And that’s why on Talkin’ Off The Top Rope, the stories never die.
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Once the review begins, this episode turns into one of the most important early 1992 USWA shows so far. The Moondogs, Richard Lee, Jeff Jarrett, Robert Fuller, and Jerry Lawler collide in a wild brawl from Kennett, Missouri, and by the time it’s over, Lawler has stepped directly into the tag team war against the Moondogs. What started as Jarrett and Fuller versus Richard Lee’s chaos suddenly becomes Jerry Lawler and Jeff Jarrett versus the Moondogs, and the boys immediately recognize that this was the start of something huge for the USWA in 1992.
This is one of those episodes where the USWA starts to feel like it has found its next big story.
The Moondogs are destroying people.
Richard Lee is losing his mind.
And Jerry Lawler just smelled money!
Gene opens the show by explaining why this interview matters. Retro Wrestling w/Gene Jackson has always been about finding the people fans haven’t heard from in years, the names who weren’t on every shoot interview, podcast, or convention stage —and Brother Ernest fits that mission perfectly. After Gene’s article and promo compilation reminded fans just how entertaining Brother Ernest was, the response made it clear: people still remember him, and they still want to hear his story.
The heart of the episode is Brother Ernest explaining what the character actually was. He makes it clear that they were not mocking God, scripture, or sincere religion. The target was the shady televangelist type that had been all over the news, and Brother Ernest says they were careful not to cross certain lines.
By the end, this episode is exactly what Retro Wrestling w/Gene Jackson does best: it brings back a name fans remember, fills in the story behind the character, and gives a performer who hasn’t been heard from enough the chance to explain how it all happened in his own words.
For fans of Memphis Wrestling, CWA, Continental Wrestling, Jerry Lawler, Jerry Jarrett, Jeff Jarrett, Lance Russell, Dave Brown, Bill Dundee, Jamie Dundee, Eddie Gilbert, Missy Hyatt, Maxx Payne, the Samoans, and unforgettable old school managers who could make fans mad enough to jam a TV station switchboard, this episode is required listening.
Brother Ernest Angel may have only been around for a short time.
But brother, he made every minute count.
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This final chapter picks up with BT admitting that even he thought Ozark Mountain Wrestling was pretty much done after 1995 only to find out through the research that Bert Prentice and company kept running well into 1996, changed directions, crossed paths with USWA, and eventually morphed toward North American All-Star Wrestling and later Music City Wrestling.
The centerpiece of this episode is the realization that Ozark Mountain Wrestling didn’t just vanish after its biggest Jonesboro show. BT explains that the promotion kept running through 1996, drew real money in certain towns, worked with USWA talent, and eventually became tangled up with the same late territory Memphis ecosystem that Gene and Robb have been covering in the USWA lawsuit series.
The episode also has plenty of classic BT side roads: Dirty Little Dave, outlaw shows in Arkansas, a dirt-floor dressing room, Reggie Montgomery, flea market wrestling, small town pizza economics, local promoters fighting over the same tiny audience, and BT’s own idea for a Jonesboro wrestling venue that would have mixed weekly wrestling with YouTube style distribution and event rentals.
By the end, Part Three becomes less about wrapping up a failed little promotion and more about understanding one of the last strange branches of the territory era. Ozark Mountain Wrestling started as this quirky Jonesboro project built around Bert Prentice, Colorado Kid, local Arkansas talent, and borrowed names but it lasted longer than expected, drew better than expected in spots, crossed paths with USWA, and helped bridge the gap between dying territory wrestling and the independent scene that followed.
For fans of Ozark Mountain Wrestling, Bert Prentice, Colorado Kid, Jonesboro wrestling, USWA, Bill Dundee, Jerry Lawler, Brian Christopher, Bull Pain, Dirty Little Dave, Future Shock, Cactus Jack, Missy Hyatt, Music City Wrestling, and weird little pieces of wrestling history that almost slipped through the cracks, this is the one that ties it all together.
Ozark Mountain Wrestling wasn’t dead after 1995.
It was just getting weirder.
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Roger starts at the beginning, talking about watching wrestling as a child with his grandfather and being hooked by stars like Jackie Fargo, Len Rossi, and Tojo Yamamoto. He also remembers the early Gulas territory names who influenced him, including Bobby Eaton and Arvil Hutto, and explains how that childhood fandom eventually turned into a real desire to get into the wrestling business himself.
The Deep South Wrestling material is especially interesting because Roger explains that he was originally brought along by Richard, only to be asked to referee on TV when another referee didn’t show up. He had never refereed before, but Bill Harris told him he would be fine, and Roger stepped in wearing black slacks, boots, and a referee shirt he happened to have with him.
Roger also gives a lot of credit to the people who helped shape him, especially Jody Hamilton and the Deep South crew. By his own admission, Roger already knew moves and could take bumps before he got there, but Deep South helped teach him how to actually work. That distinction is one of the strongest takeaways from the whole interview.
There’s also plenty of good old-school name discussion. Roger talks about Randy Rose, Wildcat Wendell Cooley, Bullet Bob Armstrong, Action Mike Jackson, Tom Zenk, Terry Gordy, Jack Victory, Rip Morgan, Ricky Morton, Robert Gibson, and Jimmy Powell. Some stories are funny, some are blunt, and some are just good examples of what it was like to work independent wrestling in that era.
By the end, this episode feels like exactly what Classic Wrestling Talk does best: giving a platform to someone who may not be a household name to every modern fan, but who lived the business, worked with major names, learned from veterans, traveled the roads, and came away with stories worth preserving.
For fans of Deep South Wrestling, Nick Gulas territory wrestling, Southern Championship Wrestling, Alabama and Georgia independent wrestling, Roger Sartain, Richard Sartain, Jody Hamilton, Bill Harris, Mickey Henry, Randy Rose, Wildcat Wendell Cooley, Bullet Bob Armstrong, Rock ’n’ Roll Express, Action Mike Jackson, Terry Gordy, Jack Victory, Rip Morgan, and real old school wrestling conversations, this episode is a great listen.
Roger Sartain may not have chased the national spotlight.
But he lived the life, learned the business, and earned the stories.
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Tony makes it clear right away that he wasn’t trying to paint himself as a major player in the office. He describes himself as the lowest man on the totem pole, the guy holding and hauling the ring but that’s exactly what makes his perspective so valuable. He was close enough to see the weirdness, hear the arguments, run the errands, deal with the money cuts, watch the locker room react, and later get dragged into the legal side of the fallout, without having a need to cover his own ass like many of the players would feel the need to.
The biggest difference in this episode is that Tony Myers lived inside the chaos. Parts One and Two laid out the legal structure and the confusing sale story, but Tony gives the story real insight and context: the boys refusing to sign merchandise papers, Lawler trying to calm everybody down, Burton treating Memphis TV like a movie set, pay getting cut, ring crew problems, and the constant feeling that nobody really knew who was in charge anymore.
But the episode isn’t just legal talk. Actually, some of the best moments are Tony’s Memphis stories: Jamie Dundee impressions, Billy Joe Travis tales, Admiral Benbow misery, Jackie and Luna coming to blows in the dressing room, Viscera calling Larry Burton, and believe it or not, a touching story about Brian Christopher and Jamie Dundee that nearly gets everyone on the screen emotional.
By the end, Robb sums up the key takeaway: Tony’s stories may be wild, funny, and all over the place, but they also support the larger point that the USWA’s final days were even messier than the paperwork could ever make them look.
For fans of USWA, Memphis Wrestling, Jerry Lawler, Jerry Jarrett, Larry Burton, XL Sports, Mark Selker, Tony Myers, Downtown Bruno, Jamie Dundee, Brian Christopher, Bill Dundee, Dave Brown, Corey Maclin, wrestling lawsuits, tape trading, and the real behind-the-scenes wreckage of the last territory, this one is required listening.
Part Three isn’t just about the lawsuit.
It’s about what the collapse looked like from someone on the inside.
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This isn’t a standard “what was your favorite match?” interview. K.G. and Gene dig into why wrestling history matters, how much has already been lost, and why the stories of journeymen, managers, referees, announcers, promoters, photographers, TV crews, and local territory stars deserve to be preserved right alongside the legends.
A quick sidebar, at the beginning of the interview, K.G. referred to Gene as a historian. After the interview, “off air”, Gene said, he didn’t set out to become a “historian”, he admitted he has come to HATE that term and insists that he’s doesn’t like being referred to as a “historian” simply because too many people in the “pro wrestling nostalgia podcast space” in recent years have proclaimed themselves “historians” or have been christened with the title by other people, when they are basically, “just wrestling fans who watched a lot of wrestling and bought a couple of Feinstein’s Shoot Interview tapes. When pressed about details on topics they proclaim to be a “historian” of, most don’t really know s***. They know surface level information from memory, but they aren’t “studying” anything or recording any “history”, they just think it looks cool on their bio. I do a TON of research for my articles and “deep dive” shows and could justify calling myself a “historian” if I wanted to, but at this point, in my mind the title is sorta tainted. But that’s just me, I’m a bit of an a**hole, so it’s probably good we aren’t recording this.” Sorry, it’s a fun take, I had to work that in somewhere, back to the actual interview.
The strongest thread of the episode is Gene’s explanation of how the Retro Wrestling Archive grew out of genuine fandom. He was a fan who loved Memphis, Continental, Mid South, tape trading, obscure footage, and the kind of wrestlers who might not show up on every “greatest ever” list but still mattered to the people who watched them every week.
The Eddie Gilbert discussion is a major highlight. Gene talks about starting the book years earlier, shelving it out it for a number of reasons, then eventually connecting with Doug at the perfect time. What makes that story so meaningful is that the final book was able to include voices like Lance Russell, Jerry Jarrett, Eddie and Doug’s parents, and a few other whom would not have been available if the project had started from scratch years two years ago.
The interview also gets into Gene’s philosophy as an interviewer. He talks about avoiding the same recycled questions, only interviewing people he has a genuine interest in talking to, and listening closely enough to follow up on their answer instead of just moving to the next pre-written question on a list. K.G. connects with that immediately, because Get Your Bell Rung is built around those same deeper, more personal conversations.
By the end, the episode becomes as much about purpose as it is about wrestling. Gene explains that if one of his shows makes someone’s week better, introduces a fan to a wrestler they didn’t know, or helps keep a forgotten story alive, then the work matters. That’s the heart of the Retro Wrestling Archive, and it lines up perfectly with K.G.’s own mission of giving wrestlers a place to tell the parts of their story that most interviews skip.
For fans of Retro Wrestling Archive, Get Your Bell Rung, Memphis Wrestling, Continental Wrestling, Mid South Wrestling, Eddie Gilbert, Doug Gilbert, Tommy Rich, Wolfie D, Jamie Dundee, forgotten territory names, and real conversations about why wrestling history is worth saving, this episode is a must listen.
This is unfiltered wrestling history.
And Gene Jackson is still chasing the stories before they disappear.
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Before the Power Pro chaos even begins, the guys address a critic who didn’t quite understand the concept of a watch-along podcast, Robb fires back in true Texas Bunch fashion, and Gene announces that Retro Wrestling Archive is joining WSN+, with shows coming to Roku, Fire TV, Google TV, mobile apps, on-demand viewing, and a 24/7 Retro Wrestling Archive stream.
By the end, the weekly wrap-up says it all. Robb’s hit is “the show ending,” Gene’s miss is the cage segment going too far, and BT’s hit is Randy being in the cage and Lawler tipping him over. Everybody agrees this episode is messy, but there’s also something weirdly addictive about it. Power Pro may not be good every week, but it sure isn’t boring.
Basically, Episode #21 is a perfect example of why this show works. The Power Pro episode itself is all over the place, but Gene, Robb, and BT turn the madness into the real main event with live comments, inside Memphis context, random sidebars, great one liners, and enough late 90s wrestling absurdity to make you question whether anybody in that studio knew where the brakes were.
And somehow, that’s the charm……but, hey…..it’s not for everybody.
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On Episode #14 of the RWR Continental Wrestling Podcast, Gene Jackson and Robb Helt head back into Continental Championship Wrestling as 1985 starts winding down and the territory begins setting the table for what should be a very interesting 1986. Gene points out that 1985 has already delivered plenty, especially the Nightmares versus Rich Cousins but there’s a feeling that Continental is starting to pick up steam as the year heads toward the finish line.
This week’s episode has better video quality, solid audio, and a lot happening: a loser leaves town lights out issue with The Bullet and Jimmy Golden, a hot tag title match between the Nightmares and the Rich Cousins, the continuing weirdness of Adrian Street, Miss Linda, and Norvell Austin, and the setup for upcoming TV Title Tournament finals and the much hyped Austin Idol vs. Exotic Adrian Street dream match.
By the end of the episode, Gene and Robb both seem encouraged by where Continental is going. The Nightmares/Riches feud is working, Adrian Street is tremendous television, the Bullet angle still has juice, and 1986 is starting to look like the year where this podcast may really hit its stride.
Episode #14 is a good one: better footage, better pacing, a strong tag title change, Linda in disguise, two Bullets, chicken suit humiliation, and Gordon Solie standing behind what is apparently a literal bar!
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Highlights of last week
Hales Interview
Young Guns Title: Kid Wikkid vs Erin O'Grady
*Street Fight* Brandon Baxter vs Randy Hales (Vic Grimes debuts and attacks Baxter)
Shawn Stasiak, Baldo and Vic Grimes Debut (Randy Hales new Syndicate is formed)
*Boomerang on a Pole Match* Bill Dundee vs Ashley Hudson
Brandon Baxter is taken away in an Ambulance
Shawn Stasiak vs Lance Jade
FOR TONS OF EXCLUSIVE RETRO WRESTLING CONTENT: Check out our Patreon at www.patreon.com/retrowrestlingarchive
Check out Dangerous Conversations w/Doug Gilbert & Tommy Rich each week right here at the Retro Wrestling Archive! You can also find it on your favorite podcast platform at www.douggilbertpodcast.com
Check out the Retro Wrestling Re-View USWA Podcast! @ www.uswapodcast.com
Check out our merch store over at tinyurl.com/retrowrestling
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Gravedigger and Dr. Frank vs Killer Clown and Gene Simmons
President Clinton vs The Bulldog
Freddy and Leatherface vs Popeye and Batman
Randy Hales Interview--Brandon Baxter tars and feathers
The Snowman vs The Wolfman
Masquerade Maul-Elimination match for the championship
Batman, Wolfman, Popeye, Bulldog, Dr. Frank, Killer Clown, President Clinton, GraveDigger
FOR TONS OF EXCLUSIVE RETRO WRESTLING CONTENT: Check out our Patreon at www.patreon.com/retrowrestlingarchive
Check out Dangerous Conversations w/Doug Gilbert & Tommy Rich each week right here at the Retro Wrestling Archive! You can also find it on your favorite podcast platform at www.douggilbertpodcast.com
Check out the Retro Wrestling Re-View USWA Podcast! @ www.uswapodcast.com
Check out our merch store over at tinyurl.com/retrowrestling
Check out the new book: "Hot Stuff" Eddie Gilbert: The Uncrowned King of Professional Wrestling on Amazon.com, Books-a-Million.com, Barnes&Noble.com, and other reputable book retailers!
Ashley Hudson vs Streak
Lance Jade vs Derrick King
Sid Interview
Sid and POB segment--give Hales' thugs lashings
Bill Dundee Interview
Kid Wikkid vs Bill Dundee
Rex King/Randy Hales Interview
Jerry Lawler vs Rex King
Parking Lot Brawl at the end
FOR TONS OF EXCLUSIVE RETRO WRESTLING CONTENT: Check out our Patreon at www.patreon.com/retrowrestlingarchive
Check out Dangerous Conversations w/Doug Gilbert & Tommy Rich each week right here at the Retro Wrestling Archive! You can also find it on your favorite podcast platform at www.douggilbertpodcast.com
Check out the Retro Wrestling Re-View USWA Podcast! @ www.uswapodcast.com
Check out our merch store over at tinyurl.com/retrowrestling
Check out the new book: "Hot Stuff" Eddie Gilbert: The Uncrowned King of Professional Wrestling on Amazon.com, Books-a-Million.com, Barnes&Noble.com, and other reputable book retailers!
Bulldog Raines vs Streak
Brandon Baxter Interview
Randy Hales Interview
Lance Jade & Blade vs Master B and Brian Christopher
Hales/Dundee Interview, calls out the young talent (GREAT!!!!!!)
4 Corners Match:
Derrick King vs Bill Dundee vs Kid Wikkid vs Ashley Hudson
Coward Waves the Flag: Rex King w/Hales vs Jerry Lawler w/Dundee
FOR TONS OF EXCLUSIVE RETRO WRESTLING CONTENT: Check out our Patreon at www.patreon.com/retrowrestlingarchive
Check out Dangerous Conversations w/Doug Gilbert & Tommy Rich each week right here at the Retro Wrestling Archive! You can also find it on your favorite podcast platform at www.douggilbertpodcast.com
Check out the Retro Wrestling Re-View USWA Podcast! @ www.uswapodcast.com
Check out our merch store over at tinyurl.com/retrowrestling
Check out the new book: "Hot Stuff" Eddie Gilbert: The Uncrowned King of Professional Wrestling on Amazon.com, Books-a-Million.com, Barnes&Noble.com, and other reputable book retailers!
Highlights of Settle the Score
Sid/POB Arrival
Randy Hales interview—introduces Hawk from LOD—Hawk Interview
Bulldog Raines and Billy Joe Travis vs Lance Jade and Streak
Brandon Baxter/Stacy Interview—Randy Hales interrupts and insults Baxter and his family. Baxter attacks Hales, then Baxter gets jumped by Billy Joe Travis—BB gets put in the dumpster
Bill Dundee Interview
Ashley Hudson & Kid Wikkid vs Bill Dundee & Derrick King
Sid Interview
Jerry Lawler Interview
Chicago Street Fight: Jerry Lawler vs Road Warrior Hawk
FOR TONS OF EXCLUSIVE RETRO WRESTLING CONTENT: Check out our Patreon at www.patreon.com/retrowrestlingarchive
Check out Dangerous Conversations w/Doug Gilbert & Tommy Rich each week right here at the Retro Wrestling Archive! You can also find it on your favorite podcast platform at www.douggilbertpodcast.com
Check out the Retro Wrestling Re-View USWA Podcast! @ www.uswapodcast.com
Check out our merch store over at tinyurl.com/retrowrestling
Check out the new book: "Hot Stuff" Eddie Gilbert: The Uncrowned King of Professional Wrestling on Amazon.com, Books-a-Million.com, Barnes&Noble.com, and other reputable book retailers!
FOR TONS OF EXCLUSIVE RETRO WRESTLING CONTENT: Check out our Patreon at www.patreon.com/retrowrestlingarchive
Check out www.retrowrestlingarchive.club for all of our social media, merch stores, and everything related to our content and podcasts
Check out www.retrowrestlingarchive.club for all of our social media, merch stores, and everything related to our content and podcasts
Check out www.retrowrestlingarchive.club for all of our social media, merch stores, and everything related to our content and podcasts
Check out www.retrowrestlingarchive.club for all of our social media, merch stores, and everything related to our content and podcasts
Check out www.retrowrestlingarchive.club for all of our social media, merch stores, and everything related to our content and podcasts
Check out www.retrowrestlingarchive.club for all of our social media, merch stores, and everything related to our content and podcasts
Check out www.retrowrestlingarchive.club for all of our social media, merch stores, and everything related to our content and podcasts
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This episode serves as both a Portland Wrestling history lesson and a launch primer for the new Retro Wrestling Re-View Portland Wrestling Patreon watchalong series with Gene Jackson and “The Grizzled Vet” Michael McCurdy. Gene explains that, growing up in Mississippi and Alabama, he mostly knew Portland through wrestling magazines and traded VHS tapes and his knowledge was mostly limited to the Billy Jack heel turn, some random angles, and scattered footage but Rich’s hard drive opened the door to a much bigger world.
The heart of the episode is the story of Buddy Rose’s tape collection. Buddy started recording Portland Wrestling in 1977, saved hundreds of tapes, and preserved footage that easily could have disappeared forever. The preservation talk is tremendous. Rich tells Gene about the old Quasar tapes, the machine he had to track down, the repairs, the mold damage, and the thrill of finally finding rare Lonnie “Moondog” Mayne footage. Look, for wrestling fans who care about territory history, this is the good stuff. It’s not just “some guy has tapes.” It’s a rescue mission for an entire piece of territory wrestling history.
Basically, this is one of those conversations where every name opens another door. Buddy Rose leads to Piper. Piper leads to Don Owen. Don Owen leads to Tom Peterson. Billy Jack leads to Rip Oliver. Rip Oliver leads to Santa Claus with a crowbar. Frank Bonnema leads to the whole feel of Portland television. And before long, you realize Portland wasn’t some forgotten minor stop, it was a real, long running, talent rich territory that helped shape a lot of the wrestling people still talk about today.
For fans of Portland Wrestling, Don Owen, Buddy Rose, Roddy Piper, Billy Jack Haynes, Rip Oliver, Lonnie Mayne, Frank Bonnema, Tom Peterson, Chris Colt, Len Denton, Art Barr, Scotty the Body, “Mean” Mike Miller, Dave Sierra, Ed Wiskowski, and the lost footage that keeps territory wrestling alive, this episode is required listening.
Portland Wrestling may not have gotten the magazine covers.
But thanks to Rich Patterson, it didn’t get erased.
As mentioned on the show, if you would like to purchase one of Rich's hard drives featuring 500+ hours of Portland Wrestling, you can contact him via email at portlandwrestlingvideo@yahoo.com
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This episode brings the energy of a classic wrestling talk show: honest memories, locker room style conversation, reflections on the business, and the kind of unpredictable stories that make interviews like this worth hearing from start to finish. Whether you know Rocky from his time around the wrestling scene or you’re hearing his story for the first time, this is a chance to sit back and enjoy a conversation that goes wherever the memories take it.
For fans of classic wrestling interviews, road stories, personalities from the territory and independent wrestling world, and the growing lineup of shows under the Retro Wrestling Archive Podcast Network, this edition of Drop the Mic is another fun listen from Huge Pop Entertainment Presents…
Because sometimes the best wrestling stories don’t come from the main event.
Sometimes they come when somebody finally gets handed the mic.
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On Episode #10 of the Retro Wrestling Re-View WCCW Podcast, Robb Helt and Scottie Wince aka “Texas Bunch” jump back into World Class Championship Wrestling for the first televised fallout after Christmas Star Wars 1982. After covering the night Terry Gordy slammed the cage door on Kerry Von Erich and lit the fuse on the Freebirds/Von Erichs war, this episode picks up on January 22, 1983 with WCCW already feeling hotter, sharper, and more historically important than anything the guys have watched so far.
Right away, Robb points out that there appear to be two missing shows between Christmas Star Wars and this episode, but the TV presentation itself suggests World Class may have taken time off or skipped ahead, because Bill Mercer is still heavily recapping what happened at Reunion Arena. Either way, the story direction is clear: Kerry Von Erich has seen the footage, David Manning has opinions about Michael Hayes, Terry Gordy is already hated, and the Freebirds/Von Erichs feud is officially underway.
The main story is the fallout from Kerry Von Erich vs. Ric Flair. Kerry sits down with Bill Mercer, watches the cage match footage, and explains that he doesn’t remember everything clearly after the cage door smashed him in the head. The key point is simple: in Kerry’s mind, Michael Hayes and Terry Gordy cost him the NWA World Heavyweight Title, and now the Von Erichs have a score to settle!
By the end, Robb and Scottie are clearly more excited about where the podcast is headed. The work is better, the crowd is hotter, the Freebird/Von Erich story has direction, Gordy feels like a killer, and World Class is finally becoming the promotion everyone talks about when they talk about 1980s Texas wrestling.
Get ready for a wild ride!
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The boys kick things off with some network business, new joke sponsor shirts, and a teaser of Corey Maclin absolutely coming unglued later in the show while trying to deal with Richard Lee and the Moondogs. From there, the episode jumps into the fallout from Brian Christopher’s boxing match with Tony Williams, Bart Sawyer continuing the “Bartman” energy, Jeff Jarrett and Robert Fuller taking aim at the Moondogs, and Tony Falk introducing Miss Jennifer in a segment that goes sideways almost immediately.
Episode #117 feels like 1992 USWA is starting to find its direction. Brian Christopher has turned the corner, Eric Embry is suddenly everywhere…again, the Moondogs are getting more dangerous by the week, Robert Fuller is somehow working as a babyface, and Corey Maclin may need hazard pay if Richard Lee keeps bringing those “crazy fools” into the studio.
REST IN PAIN indeed.
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Maxx starts by going all the way back to his childhood love of sports. Before wrestling, he was a football fanatic, a basketball player, a shot-putter, a swimmer, a baseball kid, and eventually a serious amateur wrestler. He talks about clashing with a high school football coach, falling in love with wrestling after first hating it, and growing up in a household where watching sports with his father helped shape the rest of his life.
The strongest part of the interview may be the story of Takedown. Maxx explains that he ignored the early casting calls because he was focused on wrestling, then suddenly found himself reading for the role of Bobich. That movie didn’t just give him an acting credit it changed the direction of his life.
The Japan material is another highlight. Maxx talks about training with Red Bastien, heading to Japan with Chris Benoit, living in the New Japan dojo, doing the brutal daily workouts, and learning from veterans by asking what he did wrong instead of fishing for compliments. He also tells a very funny Dick Murdoch story after slipping off the ropes in Japan, with Murdoch advising him to take two weeks off and quit.
For Memphis fans, there’s some great material on how the Maxx Payne character started coming together. He talks about wanting to be the dark, heavy metal, Alice Cooper style monster of wrestling, then explains how Memphis was brutally hard but also one of the places where he truly learned the business. He gives Jerry Lawler a lot of credit, saying that working with Lawler was easy as long as you listened and knew when it was time to sell.
The WCW and music discussion is fascinating, too. Maxx says the guitar element truly took off in Germany after Dave Finlay and Rip Rogers told him to make it part of the act. That success helped lead to Bill Watts bringing him into WCW, where he debuted in early 1993 and played guitar at SuperBrawl. From there, he tried to create a band made up of wrestlers, with Brad Armstrong originally planned as the singer before Brian Armstrong stepped in.
The Man Mountain Rock section is blunt. Maxx says the WWF “de-rocked” him, that he should have pushed back harder creatively, and that the version of the character he wanted — black, white, skulls, heavy metal, and edge got softened into something he didn’t believe in. He also previews a documentary project using footage he shot during that period, which he says will show the behind the scenes tension from his point of view.
For fans of Maxx Payne, Man Mountain Rock, Memphis Wrestling, WCW, WWF New Generation, New Japan, Chris Benoit, Jerry Lawler, Bill Watts, Red Bastien, Brad Armstrong, Brian Armstrong, and wrestlers who tried to bring something completely different to the table, this episode is loaded.
Maxx Payne wasn’t just a big man with a guitar.
He was an athlete, actor, wrestler, musician, filmmaker, and one of those creative wrestling minds who may have been 30 years ahead of the room he was standing in.
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The heart of the episode is the difference between a plan and proof. Burton’s story only works if there is real value at the end of the rainbow — specifically, a WWF/Vince McMahon payday. But Robb makes the legal distinction clear: even if McMahon gave an opinion that the USWA might be worth six to eight million dollars, that is not the same thing as saying, “I will buy it for that price.”
That becomes the running theme of the episode: potential is not proof. Robb explains that in litigation, potential future value can quickly turn into speculative fiction if there’s no enforceable commitment, no completed deal, and no hard evidence showing that money was actually waiting on the other side.
Basically, this episode is about peeling back the legend and asking the questions that usually get skipped. Was Burton working Selker? Was Lawler & Burton working together to work Selker? Was Lawler working Burton? Did Burton every really meet with Vince McMahon? Did Burton actually believe he had found hidden syndication money? Did Jerry Jarrett see the storm coming and take the safest way out? And the most obvious question that Mark Selker apparently never asked, if the USWA really had a six to eight million dollar value, why didn’t Jerry Lawler simply sell it directly to Vince McMahon himself rather then sell to to them two million??
That’s the question that hangs over the whole thing.
For fans of USWA, Memphis Wrestling, Jerry Lawler, Jerry Jarrett, Larry Burton, XL Sports, Mark Selker, wrestling lawsuits, territory business, and the strange legal rabbit holes that swallowed up the final days of Memphis studio wrestling, Part Two is where the story gets even murkier.
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Russo opens up about some of the most difficult and personal chapters of his life, including the loss of his mother and friends such as Daffney. He discusses the emotional weight of grief, how those experiences changed his perspective, and what it means to find peace after devastating loss.
The conversation also turns to faith and how Russo's Christian beliefs have helped him navigate some of life's most difficult moments. He shares how his faith has given him perspective, purpose, and a different understanding of what truly matters.
While Total Nonstop Agony focuses heavily on Russo's time in TNA, he explains that professional wrestling was ultimately a job for him and a means of providing for his family. He discusses his frustrations with critics and the internet wrestling community, particularly those who treat scripted entertainment as something far more serious than he believes it should be.
Russo also speaks candidly about getting older, his concerns about cognitive decline and dementia because of his family history, and his determination to keep his mind active through writing. He discusses the possibility of eventually stepping away from the public eye and reflects on what he wants his life to mean beyond wrestling.
Throughout the interview, KG Landry and Vince Russo connect over shared experiences and the importance of family, health, faith, and recognizing what truly matters in life.
The conversation ultimately comes down to legacy. When Russo reflects on how he wants to be remembered, his answer is not about championships, television ratings, wrestling storylines, or professional accomplishments. He wants the people closest to him to remember one thing above everything else: how much he loved them.
This is Vince Russo like you've rarely heard him before. Honest, emotional, reflective, and completely personal.
Watch, listen, and join KG Landry and Vince Russo for a conversation that goes far beyond professional wrestling.


