Leaving the MessageJohn Graham Lake (1870-1935) was a "faith healer" and Pentecostal revivalist. From 1908 to 1913, he served as a missionary to Africa, spreading the Pentecostal faith overseas through the Apostolic Faith Mission of South Africa. In 1914 he started 'The Divine Healing Institute,' as well as 'healing rooms' in the pattern of John Alexander Dowie's Christian Catholic Church.
Lake was heavily influenced by John Alexander Dowie, and evidence suggests that Lake was a fundamental part of Dowie's stage act in the United States from the early 1890s. Lake was apparently one of the men Dowie used as "witnesses" for the staged healings in his meetings.
After Dowie died, Charles Fox Parham attempted to seize control of Zion, and Lake joined Parham's side of the schism along with F. F. Bosworth and others. Convinced that the End of Days was near, the group began performing exorcisms, along with a range of ecstatic and sexual behaviors. The hysteria that resulted ended in several murders, some of which appear to have been covered up by the Zion coroner. The Parhamites, along with Lake, fled Zion. It was during this time that Lake claimed to have had a series of "visions", which convinced him to leave his wealth and possessions behind and begin his Mission in South Africa.
Lake returned to the United States in 1913 and attempted to recreate Dowie's empire in Portland, Oregon. Soon after, Lake was exposed by newspapers in the United States multiple times for fraudulent and criminal activity. In 1922 Lake and his son were charged with committing securities fraud in a scheme involving his Church. It was then made public that Lake had been using the church as a means for the sale of mining stocks and had been selling worthless stocks to church members. A few weeks later, Lake attempted to seize property while impersonating a police officer and was arrested as he left the pulpit in his Church. Weeks after that, he was held on Federal charges of failure to report a communicable disease.
John G. Lake: The Gods General Con Artist and FraudLeaving the Message2022-12-15 | John Graham Lake (1870-1935) was a "faith healer" and Pentecostal revivalist. From 1908 to 1913, he served as a missionary to Africa, spreading the Pentecostal faith overseas through the Apostolic Faith Mission of South Africa. In 1914 he started 'The Divine Healing Institute,' as well as 'healing rooms' in the pattern of John Alexander Dowie's Christian Catholic Church.
Lake was heavily influenced by John Alexander Dowie, and evidence suggests that Lake was a fundamental part of Dowie's stage act in the United States from the early 1890s. Lake was apparently one of the men Dowie used as "witnesses" for the staged healings in his meetings.
After Dowie died, Charles Fox Parham attempted to seize control of Zion, and Lake joined Parham's side of the schism along with F. F. Bosworth and others. Convinced that the End of Days was near, the group began performing exorcisms, along with a range of ecstatic and sexual behaviors. The hysteria that resulted ended in several murders, some of which appear to have been covered up by the Zion coroner. The Parhamites, along with Lake, fled Zion. It was during this time that Lake claimed to have had a series of "visions", which convinced him to leave his wealth and possessions behind and begin his Mission in South Africa.
Lake returned to the United States in 1913 and attempted to recreate Dowie's empire in Portland, Oregon. Soon after, Lake was exposed by newspapers in the United States multiple times for fraudulent and criminal activity. In 1922 Lake and his son were charged with committing securities fraud in a scheme involving his Church. It was then made public that Lake had been using the church as a means for the sale of mining stocks and had been selling worthless stocks to church members. A few weeks later, Lake attempted to seize property while impersonating a police officer and was arrested as he left the pulpit in his Church. Weeks after that, he was held on Federal charges of failure to report a communicable disease.
John invites Jed Hartley to "detangle" IHOPKC. Both share personal stories of how their upbringing in a doomsday cult shaped their worldview, their identity, and their spiritual journey, particularly the psychological toll of believing that the end of the world was imminent. They delve into the damaging effects of these apocalyptic beliefs, the constant sense of urgency, and the tension between grandiose expectations and the mundane realities of life.
As the discussion unfolds, it becomes clear that the speakers grapple with the lingering impact of their time in these environments, especially how it influenced their sense of self-worth, relationships, and their pursuit of meaning after leaving the group. The transcript touches on the role of ego in apocalyptic religious communities, the dangers of believing oneself to be a central figure in God’s plan, and the challenges of disentangling from such deeply embedded beliefs. Ultimately, it highlights the complex process of healing, learning humility, and redefining one’s faith or lack thereof after such formative experiences.
00:00 Introduction 02:00 Personal Background and Growing Up in Apocalyptic Communities 04:00 The Influence of Apocalyptic Beliefs on Childhood and Parenting 06:00 Discussion on Apocalyptic Cults and Their Psychological Impact 09:00 Doomsday Cult Mindset and Theological Differences 12:00 Questioning End-Times Theology After Leaving the Cult 15:00 Reflections on the International House of Prayer’s Prophetic Promises 20:00 British Israelism and the Pentecostal Movement’s Apocalyptic Focus 26:00 The Role of Ego in Apocalyptic Religious Movements 30:00 Coping with Guilt and Self-Inflicted Pressure 36:00 The False Promises of Prophecy and Personal Disillusionment 41:00 Rewriting Religious Texts to Fit Apocalyptic Narratives 46:00 The Psychological Toll of Leaving a High-Control Religious Group 50:00 Struggles with Boredom, Loneliness, and Urgency After Leaving 54:00 Learning to Embrace Normalcy After a Life of Apocalyptic Expectation 1:00:00 Closing Thoughts on Healing and Moving Forward
A brief overview of Barton Warren Stone, Restoration Movement, and its historical and theological influence. It focuses on key figures such as Barton Warren Stone and Alexander Campbell, their theological positions, and their divergence from mainstream Christian doctrine, particularly regarding issues like the Trinity and predestination. The transcript highlights how Stone’s break from the Presbyterian Church and his views on Christian unity shaped the Restoration Movement. Additionally, the transcript touches on the Cane Ridge Revival, which marked a turning point for Stone, leading him to reject Calvinism and focus on free will and universal salvation.
The transcript also examines the broader influence of Stone’s ideas on later religious movements such as Oneness Pentecostalism, the Latter Rain Movement, and the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). These movements borrowed some of Stone’s restoration themes but also incorporated their own unique theological elements, such as an emphasis on supernatural gifts, apostleship, and spiritual warfare. Although the transcript suggests that Stone himself may not have agreed with many of the later developments, his influence on the rejection of creeds, denominationalism, and certain aspects of traditional Christian theology can be seen throughout these movements.
00:00 Introduction to Barton Warren Stone and the Restoration Movement 02:45 Stone leads the Restoration Movement into heresy 05:17 Stone joins forces with Alexander Campbell 06:53 William Branham continues the heresy as "restoration" or "restored truth"
The podcast features John Collins interviewing Alyssa Hammond, a former member of the International House of Prayer (IHOP). Alyssa recounts her childhood experiences growing up in IHOP and her struggles with the organization’s intense focus on eschatology and prophetic messages. Her father was deeply connected to the movement, leading the family to relocate to Kansas City when she was 13. As a teenager, Alyssa was drawn into the culture of IHOP, participating in activities such as dance and prophecy teams. However, despite her outward participation, Alyssa internally wrestled with fear, anxiety, and a sense of doom brought on by IHOP’s teachings about the end times. The conversation reveals the deep emotional toll the movement had on her, and she reflects on how her belief system was shaped by leaders like Mike Bickle and Bob Jones.
As the discussion progresses, Alyssa shares her adult life after leaving IHOP. She describes how the remnants of IHOP's teachings affected her mental and physical health. The constant pressure to perform spiritually and the community's emphasis on the end of the world left her feeling exhausted and unsure of her future. Alyssa also touches on her gradual shift away from IHOP's rigid belief system, allowing herself the freedom to question long-held teachings. She highlights the difficulty of processing her past, dealing with feelings of isolation, and balancing her current faith with her past indoctrination. The interview ends on a note of encouragement for others who have left or are considering leaving similar movements.
00:00 Introduction 01:08 Alyssa’s Childhood in IHOP 03:32 Daily Life in IHOP: Prophecy and Dance Teams 06:04 Coping with Fear and End-Time Theology 09:16 Cult Doctrines and Childhood Trauma 12:24 Leaving IHOP and Initial Reflections 15:01 Family Influences and Struggles with Belief 18:49 Bob Jones and the Mythology of IHOP Leaders 20:50 IHOP’s Influence on Personal Faith and Theology 25:03 Physical and Mental Health Challenges After IHOP 30:45 Changes in Family and Faith Practices Post-Cult 36:03 Learning the Gospel and Re-Evaluating Theology 40:56 Life After IHOP: Parenting and Personal Growth 45:00 Advice for Others Leaving Cult-like Movements 50:45 The Challenges of Finding New Faith Communities 55:08 Closing Remarks ______________________ – Support the channel: patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg – Follow on TikTok: tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: william-branham.org/site/booksPreparing for the End Times: A Journey of Faith #williambranham #pentecostal #nar #latterrain #cultLeaving the Message2024-10-17 | Full Podcast: youtube.com/watch?v=a-9xhfU2H2I
John Collins and McKinnon examine the impact of Avak Hagopian on the Latter Rain movement and, ultimately, the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). The conversation highlights the intertwining of personal charisma, alleged divine encounters, and the manipulation of religious followers for personal gain. The narrative suggests that these figures were pivotal in establishing a framework where experience and spectacle in religious gatherings often took precedence over genuine spiritual outcomes. The discussion also touches on the questionable ethics and integrity of these leaders, particularly in the context of financial and moral controversies that surrounded their ministries.
The early faith healers laid the groundwork for the theatrical and often exploitative nature of later religious movements, such as the NAR. The focus on building large followings through claims of divine healing and prophetic abilities, coupled with the strategic use of media and public relations, created a powerful but often deceptive religious phenomenon. The conversation implies that the legacy of these figures continues to influence modern charismatic movements, raising questions about the authenticity and motivations behind such ministries.
00:00 Introduction 01:05 Overview of Weaponized Religion and NAR 03:43 Discussion of Avak Hagopian's Influence 06:16 Comparison Between Branham and Hagopian 10:02 Role of Wealthy Sponsors in Promoting Faith Healers 13:43 Decline of Hagopian's Ministry 17:03 Narcissism in Religious Leaders 21:04 Manipulation and Stagecraft in Faith Healing 24:37 Transition of Followers from Hagopian to Branham 30:00 Financial Motivations Behind Religious Movements 35:02 Ethical Issues in Faith Healing Ministries 41:02 Connection Between Hagopian and Christian Identity 47:03 Legacy and Influence of Early Faith Healers
Two-thirds of the Moving Forward Trio, Jennifer and Kristi, discuss the experience of life after leaving a high-control religious group, specifically, the Movement associated with William Branham. Since Emily is absent due to wedding preparations, the two remaining members reflect on their past involvement with Branham's movement and how it influenced the way they and others celebrated holidays such as Halloween. While the Movement did not have an official stance on Halloween, church leaders often imposed restrictions on how people could celebrate, with emphasis on avoiding traditional Halloween practices in favor of biblically-themed alternatives. The conversation shifts from personal childhood Halloween memories to experiences raising children in a group that strictly regulated holiday traditions, focusing on how control extended into seemingly innocuous areas of life like children's costumes and holiday decorations.
The hosts further explore the broader implications of control within high-control groups, discussing how fear and spiritualization of everyday things like costumes, candy, and even cats were used to create boundaries and maintain influence over followers. They compare these experiences with current practices of letting children enjoy Halloween without fear, emphasizing the importance of fun and freedom. The show concludes by highlighting the process of healing after leaving such groups, emphasizing the importance of self-trust and community in moving forward.
00:00 Introduction 02:00 Halloween Traditions in a High Control Group 05:50 Childhood Halloween Experiences 09:00 Regional Differences in Halloween Observance 12:00 Leaving the Group: Halloween with Kids 16:00 Scary Stories and Fear Tactics 22:30 Reverse Trick-or-Treat and Harvest Festivals 27:00 Family Costumes and Fun 31:00 Control through Names and Pets 36:00 Fear of Spirits and Cultural Control 41:30 Witch Doctors, Seances, and Demons 46:30 Conclusion: Overcoming Fear and Control
John and Cynthia delve into the complexities of the Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements as it relates to context of Scripture.They discuss key figures such as Chuck Smith, Paul Cain, and William Branham. They analyze how the Latter Rain and Charismatic Revivals shaped modern evangelicalism, with a particular focus on the problematic elements of teaching out of context, the misuse of prophecy, and the mingling of politics with religion. Through personal anecdotes and historical context, the speakers emphasize the importance of returning to a more authentic and biblical understanding of Christianity.
The conversation also touches on the dangers of modern charismatic movements, critiquing practices like speaking in tongues and the manipulative nature of prophetic fortune-telling within these groups. The dialogue presents a clear juxtaposition between the original covenantal theology and the modern interpretations that have drifted from biblical teachings. It concludes with a reflection on the consequences of false teachings and the role of believers in discerning truth from manipulation.
00:00 Introduction 00:31 The Influence of Chuck Smith and the Latter Rain Movement 05:06 Personal Encounters at Calvary Chapel and Speaking in Tongues 10:03 The Charismatic Landscape of Southern California 14:02 Reflections on Chuck Smith’s Leadership and Legacy 18:31 Understanding the Architecture of Latter Rain Theology 22:27 Biblical Misinterpretations and Their Consequences 28:05 The Danger of Out-of-Context Scripture in Modern Evangelicalism 32:43 Prophecy in Scripture vs. Modern Movements 39:05 The Rise of Christian Nationalism 45:03 Historical Lessons from the Old Testament and Modern Applications 50:04 The Dangers of Combining Government and Religion 54:02 Personal Reflections on Leaving the Latter Rain Movement 58:02 Conclusion and Final Thoughts ______________________ – Support the channel: patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg – Follow on TikTok: tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: william-branham.org/site/booksStruggling with Faith The Truth About Healing Doctrines #pentecostal #latterrain #cultLeaving the Message2024-10-15 | Full Podcast: youtube.com/watch?v=a-9xhfU2H2I
The podcast episode provides an in-depth discussion of Hobart Freeman and his Faith Assembly movement, focusing on its decline in 1984. The conversation draws parallels between the dystopian novel *1984* and Freeman’s control over his congregation, likening his methods to totalitarian thought control. Freeman's teachings, which resulted in numerous deaths due to rejection of medical care, were discussed alongside his increasing isolation and bitterness toward the media. Freeman's rigid views and unyielding leadership alienated followers, leading to schisms within the Faith Assembly. The dialogue emphasizes Freeman's focus on control, both in religious doctrine and personal lives, as well as his public shaming of dissenters.
The discussion further explores the aftermath of Freeman’s leadership, with personal stories from survivors and the long-lasting effects of his teachings. Freeman’s rules, often arbitrary and contradictory, extended to all areas of life, from the rejection of medical care to marital and lifestyle restrictions. Former followers recall the oppressive atmosphere, where criticism was met with excommunication, and compliance was demanded under the guise of spiritual superiority. The episode concludes by noting the ongoing impact of Freeman's teachings on his followers, many of whom continue to suffer physically and emotionally from his doctrine.
00:00 Introduction 02:07 The Decline of Faith Assembly in 1984 05:05 Media Coverage and Deaths at Faith Assembly 07:58 Comparisons with John Alexander Dowie 10:58 Hobart Freeman’s Control and Thought Manipulation 14:34 Ongoing Impact of Freeman’s Teachings After His Death 18:03 Parallels Between *1984* and Religious Cults 21:01 Bruce Keny's Departure from Faith Assembly 26:01 Cult Control Tactics and Public Shaming 30:53 The "No Hunting" Rule and Other Arbitrary Restrictions 36:43 The Burden of Legalism in Cult Churches 42:04 Further Contradictions in Freeman’s Teachings 47:06 Hobart Freeman’s Mockery of Departing Members 52:20 The Contrast Between Cult Churches and Traditional Churches 56:01 Hobart Freeman’s Final Days and the Decline of His Ministry 1:00:08 The Effects of Freeman's Teachings on Marriages and Families 1:03:58 Closing Remarks ______________________ – Support the channel: patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg – Follow on TikTok: tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: william-branham.org/site/booksExploring the Origins of Deliverance Minister Training #williambranham #pentecostal #nar #latterrainLeaving the Message2024-10-14 | Full Podcast: youtu.be/5JDF3QP5FXM
John and Adam discuss healing ministries, faith healing, and the history of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). They examine the intersection of faith, healing, and the doctrines that shape various religious movements. Through personal experiences and extensive research, they highlight the dangers of conflating salvation with physical healing. This approach can create a burden for believers who are struggling with illnesses or challenges, leading to toxic positivity and unhealthy spiritual frameworks. There is particular emphasis on how such teachings can lead to disillusionment and guilt when healing or spiritual experiences do not occur as promised.
The podcast further delves into the historical roots of modern movements, tracing connections from figures like John Alexander Dowie to more recent ministries, including Bethel and IHOP-KC. The hosts discuss the importance of scrutinizing the foundations of these movements, pointing out how some leaders have perpetuated fraudulent or harmful practices. The episode concludes by advocating for a more nuanced, balanced understanding of faith and healing, recognizing the complexities of human experience without resorting to oversimplified or exploitative doctrines.
John invites Gay Lisby to discuss growing up in the Branham cult. The discussion focuses on the emotional and spiritual damage caused by William Branham’s teachings. Gay shares how her father became involved with the cult and how the environment was marked by anger, fear, and confusion. They recall how Branham’s manipulation tactics, such as rigging faith healing events, deceived people into believing in his divine powers. The conversation touches on the pain experienced by women in the cult, especially when Branham compared them to animals, which led Gay to struggle with her self-worth for many years. John adds his own experiences growing up in the cult and notes how Branham’s followers were indoctrinated with teachings that had little to do with the true message of Christianity.
As they continue, the pair explore the financial corruption within the organization, discussing how donations were funneled into the Jehovah-Jireh Foundation, enriching Branham’s family while keeping followers in ignorance. John highlights the repeated failures of Branham’s doomsday prophecies, particularly the prediction of the rapture in 1977, which left followers disillusioned. Gay credits her mother for realizing early on that the cult was a harmful environment and taking steps to protect part of the family. Both John and Gay express deep gratitude for the research and revelations that have helped them leave the cult and restore their faith in Christianity. They conclude by encouraging listeners who are still trapped in the cult to seek the truth and find freedom from the lies.
00:00 Introduction 05:03 Discovering Deception in Branham’s Healing Ministry 10:14 Personal Experiences Growing Up in the Cult 15:09 The Emotional Toll on Women in the Cult 20:24 Branham’s Failed Prophecies and Financial Corruption 25:47 Leaving the Cult and Finding True Christianity 30:15 Hypnosis and Manipulation Techniques in Branham’s Sermons 35:19 Questioning the Lies and Facing the Truth 40:06 Financial Fraud and the Jehovah-Jireh Foundation 45:32 Reflecting on Family Members Still in the Cult 50:13 Conclusion and Message of Hope for Cult Survivors ______________________ – Support the channel: patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg – Follow on TikTok: tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: william-branham.org/site/booksCrisis of Faith: 13 Years of Spiritual Betrayal #williambranham #pentecostal #nar #latterrain #wofLeaving the Message2024-10-10 | Full Video: youtu.be/I02nmvK11H4
John invites Bob Scott to discuss the Kansas City Prophets and Mike Bickle’s movement. They explore the contrast between their personal, behind-the-scenes experiences with various religious leaders and the public personas these figures present. The dialogue touches on themes like manipulation within religious organizations, the cult-like dynamics of groups like Kansas City Fellowship (KCF), and how leaders manipulate their followers. They reflect on how people are often kept in a state of urgency and fear, convinced that they are part of a special, end-time movement.
As the discussion progresses, they also delve into the human side of these religious figures, showing that many leaders are deeply flawed and can engage in behavior they know to be wrong while believing it serves a higher purpose. This exploration leads to a broader analysis of religious movements’ tendency to exploit their members, whether knowingly or unknowingly, for financial or reputational gain. The conversation also hints at the difficulties in escaping the cycle of manipulation and control, as former members often remain psychologically tied to the same systems they left.
00:00 Introduction 02:09 Personal experiences with Kansas City Fellowship 05:50 The different perspectives of leadership and members 09:55 Emotional challenges in exposing movements 14:06 Financial interests and manipulation in large churches 19:59 Urgency and control in religious movements 24:55 Narcissism and leadership within ministries 30:05 The spectrum of religious experiences 35:10 The cycle of false end-time prophecies 38:47 Psychological damage from leaving religious movements 43:10 Leaders manipulating members for personal gain 48:07 Bob Scott’s personal journey and separation from Mike Bickle 54:10 The historical roots of religious manipulation 1:02:15 Eugenics and racism’s influence on religious movements 1:07:10 Closing thoughts and future plans for further discussion ______________________ – Support the channel: patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg – Follow on TikTok: tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: william-branham.org/site/booksGordon Lindsay and Christian Identity #williambranham #pentecostal #nar #latterrain #wof #cultLeaving the Message2024-10-10 | Full Podcast: youtu.be/5JDF3QP5FXM
Charles and John examine the cult behavior and signs that one may be in a destructive cult. They discuss the various psychological and organizational manipulations used by cults, particularly their own experiences in the William Branham movement. A significant portion of the episode focuses on the cult's tactics such as behavioral control, thought manipulation, and the use of authoritarian leadership. The hosts reflect on their experiences of leaving the cult and how mind control techniques like positive confession and the demonization of critical thinking were employed to keep members compliant. These techniques often left followers isolated, believing there was no valid reason to leave, and convinced that questioning the cult was equivalent to committing an unforgivable sin.
The discussion expands to the influence of the Latter Rain and New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) movements, linking their structures to authoritarianism and destructive tendencies. There is a critical examination of the damage these movements have caused through spiritual abuse and how they warp the gospel to serve the leaders' agendas. Throughout the episode, Collins and Paisley share personal anecdotes and broader examples of how good people in these environments are manipulated into performing harmful actions under the guise of divine authority. They stress the importance of recognizing the signs of destructive cults and the difficulty for members to escape due to the deep psychological control exerted over them.
00:00 Introduction 01:06 The Definition of a Cult and Cult Questions 03:58 Destructive Cult Examples and Personal Experiences 05:51 The BITE Model: Signs of Cult Behavior 08:02 Behavioral Control in the William Branham Movement 10:58 US Versus Them Mentality in Cults 13:45 Spiritual Warfare and Its Impact on Churches 17:00 Authoritarian Leadership Models in Destructive Cults 22:04 Paul Cain’s Influence and Authoritarianism in Church Networks 25:35 Signs of a Cult: Lack of Acceptable Reasons to Leave 28:54 Distortion of the Gospel in Cults 34:30 Positive Confession and Thought Control in Cults 37:12 Mind Control Tactics in Destructive Groups 44:10 The Role of Spiritual Abuse in Thought Manipulation 46:53 Prioritization of Cult Members Over Others During Crises 49:59 Thought Control and the Greatest Battle Ever Fought Sermon 56:03 The Message’s Use of Unbelief as a Sin 1:03:30 Critical Thinking and the Bible's Command to Try All Things
The transcript covers a discussion between John Collins and Chino Ross about various events and personalities connected to the Faith Assembly, specifically focusing on the experiences of Bruce Kenzie, a former prominent member. They explore the rise of Kenzie within the Faith Assembly, his eventual disillusionment, and his departure from the group. The conversation touches on the dangers of unchecked leadership within religious movements, highlighting the personal and doctrinal conflicts that arise when authority is concentrated in a single figure like Hobart Freeman. The speakers emphasize the importance of independent thought and the dangers of blind obedience in religious settings, particularly in groups that discourage questioning or external influences.
The dialogue also sheds light on the challenges faced by those who leave such groups, both emotionally and socially. Kenzie’s journey from being a highly regarded minister to leaving and facing ostracism is detailed, reflecting the broader issues of control and manipulation within cult-like religious movements. The discussion underscores the need for accountability and the courage to challenge harmful doctrines and practices within religious communities.
00:00 Introduction 01:01 Overview of Bruce Kenzie’s Role in Faith Assembly 05:11 Challenges and Conflicts Within the Faith Assembly 10:05 Kenzie’s Disillusionment and Departure 15:26 Theological Training and the Importance of Independent Thought 20:26 Personal Anecdotes on Theological Education 26:02 Dangers of Unchecked Authority and Legalism 32:31 Bruce Kenzie’s Personal Struggles and Losses 37:01 The Impact of Hobart Freeman’s Teachings on Followers 42:47 Freeman’s Final Years and Doctrinal Extremes 47:01 Reflections on Kenzie’s Life After Leaving the Faith Assembly 55:07 Closing Thoughts on Religious Control and Leadership ______________________ – Support the channel: patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg – Follow on TikTok: tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: william-branham.org/site/booksPaul Cain Connected to the Message?!?! #williambranham #pentecostal #nar #latterrain #wof #cultLeaving the Message2024-10-08 | Full Podcast: youtu.be/5JDF3QP5FXM
John and Brantley discuss the origins and activities of the International House of Prayer (IHOPKC), delving into the role of key figures such as Mike Bickle, Bob Jones, and Paul Cain. The discussion traces how IHOP KC's formation is rooted in a series of prophetic histories and movements, drawing strong parallels between it and earlier movements like the Latter Rain. The conversation exposes questionable narratives regarding Bickle's personal story and the prophetic figures around him, particularly the messianic claims tied to Mike’s brother, Pat Bickle, who was prophesied to be healed but passed away. Despite these failed prophecies, the organization persisted, continuously reshaping its history and vision.
The dialogue also raises critical questions about the influence of real estate, finance, and the structural organization of IHOP KC, including its connection to the Kansas City Prophets. The influence of various charismatic leaders, the manipulation of prophetic histories, and the complexities of public perception versus internal realities are explored. The discussion points to potential manipulation in how the movement evolved and spread, using various tactics such as altering public records and encouraging testimonies as a distraction from failures in prophecy or internal controversy.
00:00 Introduction 01:05 The Creation of IHOPKC 03:05 Mike Bickle's Shifting Histories and Stage Personas 05:40 The Influence of Prophetic History and Timelines 07:10 Mike Bickle’s Family and Connections 09:00 Real Estate, Finance, and Organizational Structure 11:30 IHOP KC's Growth and the Influence of Latter Rain 14:30 Pat Bickle’s Failed Prophecies and the Impact 17:00 Evolution of IHOP’s Prophetic History 20:05 Mike Bickle’s Early Ministry and Influence of Bob Jones 22:00 Kansas City Prophets and Foundational Figures 25:05 The Role of Paul Cain and the Influence of William Branham 29:00 John Wimber’s Role in IHOP’s National Influence 33:00 Ernie Gruen’s Criticism and Kansas City Prophets Controversy 36:45 Analysis of the Prophetic Movement’s Influence on IHOP 42:30 Testimonies and Name-Dropping Tactics in the Movement 45:10 Bob Jones’s Incoherent Prophecies and Mike Bickle’s Interpretation 47:45 Revival Mechanics and the Perception of Growth ______________________ – Support the channel: patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg – Follow on TikTok: tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: william-branham.org/site/booksLife Changing Encounter with God #williambranham #pentecostal #nar #latterrain #wof #cultLeaving the Message2024-10-06 | Full Video: youtu.be/I02nmvK11H4